- 1 Data Template
- 2 Files
- 3 Transcription
- 4 Hypnosis
- 4.1 Richard Rose – Lecture and Demonstration in Akron, Ohio
- 4.1.1 February 17, 1988
- 4.1.2 Regression
- 4.1.3 Back into childhood
- 4.1.4 Medical results
- 4.1.5 Dianetics
- 4.1.6 Autohypnosis
- 4.1.7 Diagnostics
- 4.1.8 Self-knowledge
- 4.1.9 Santanelli
- 4.1.10 Rapport
- 4.1.11 Alfred Pulyan
- 4.1.12 Demonstration begins
- 4.1.13 Testing
- 4.1.14 Putting to sleep
- 4.1.15 Magic words
- 4.1.16 Post-hypnotic suggestion
- 4.1.17 Q&A
- 4.1.18 The mind
- 4.1.19 Power & Progression
- 4.1.20 Spirit
- 4.1.21 Group work
- 4.1.22 More Q&A
- 4.1.23 Mind as dimension
- 4.1.24 Bill Wilson & AA
- 4.1.25 Personal story
- 4.1.26 Enlightenment
- 4.2 end
- 4.1 Richard Rose – Lecture and Demonstration in Akron, Ohio
|Recorded date||February 17, 1988|
|Number of tapes||One 90 minute tape|
|Other recorders audible?||Yes. Hear sound of two (?) changing tapes at 30 minute mark of side 1. Also at 36 min mark of file #2.|
|Alternate versions exist?|
|No. of MP3 files||2 files: 47 min; 47 min.|
|Total time||94 minutes|
|Transcription status||SH started 9/12/2009; distributed 11/13/2009|
|Link to distribution copy||http://distribution.direct-mind.org/|
|Link to PDF||http://distribution.direct-mind.org/ Or try http://selfdefinition.org/rose/|
|Published in what book?|
|Published on which website?|
|Remarks||Counting, etc, is somewhat repetitious, but illustrates R's method. Must hear tape for one of voice and mood he creates.|
|Audio quality||Quality fair, words are distinct but sound is muddy, somewhat over-modulated in original recording or when this copy of tape was made.
Nasty microphone feedback noise beginning on side 1 at minute 9. Fixed at minute 12 ½.
|URL at direct-mind.org||https://www.direct-mind.org/index.php?title=1988-0217-Hypnosis-Lecture-Demonstration-Akron|
|For access, send email to: email@example.com|
Richard Rose – Lecture and Demonstration in Akron, Ohio
February 17, 1988
The majority of people look on hypnosis as a game. And the majority of people want to see tricks. Well, I was going to show you a trick here with our rabbit but the rabbit wouldn’t cooperate. I think he’s an ascended master or something – he’s wise to me. Generally you can take a chicken, any chicken, you can try this at home yourself – take a rabbit or a chicken and draw a line, big enough that the rabbit or chicken can see it – hold the chicken upside down and pull its beak out toward that line, and the chicken will immediately go to sleep, and it will stay asleep as long as it’s lying on its back. And a rabbit the same way. Well, we’ve got the wrong rabbit. [laughter] It quieted him down but he was trembling all the time. Quite possibly he felt it was dinner time. [laughter]
This is a pair of glasses I keep in my car because I’ve lost all the others. [reads from the meeting poster]
- Hypnosis is power.
- If knowledge is power then hypnosis is super-power.
- Mind control, yours and others.
- Business power. This sounds like a real propaganda sheet, which it is.
- No psychologist really knows the human mind until he adeptly masters hypnosis.
We have people in the TAT Foundation who are graduate psychologists, some of them have masters degrees and PhDs; but they can’t hypnotize so they don’t know the human mind. And they come to me to find out what I know about the human mind.
Some of them – Dr. Graham up in Massillon came down to my place, and maybe you remember Suresh Pandya – a doctor, psychiatrist – he came down to get me to teach him to hypnotize. Suresh stabbed his wife in the courtroom and hung himself in jail. I don’t know whether you remember that incident or not. It’s been a few years back. But he was a psychiatrist who lived over here west of Canton.
But how do you know the mind? Ink blots, behavioral patterns, normal curves, reaction to certain chemicals? Or is it possible to step inside the human mind?
There is a sort of law about knowledge: All knowledge is mysterious for those people who haven’t approached it. The knowledge of a child in the first grade is inferior to the knowledge of a child in the second grade. So that the child in the 1st grade looks upon the 2nd grade with awe and mystery, a place where everybody should like to go as fast as they can, to be one of the big boys. And this goes all the way up into college. Everybody who’s ever been to college knows that. They’re young men, twenty years of age, but there’s a caste system, that the freshman is not quite equal to the sophomore and the sophomore is not equal to the junior, and so on up. And this is not founded strictly on bigotry or prejudice or domination; it’s founded on the fact that each one of those people is wiser than the rest. Each one of them is more mature.
So this sets up a psychological law, that you will never know the first grade until you’re in the second. You’ll never know what a degree is until you’ve gone through four years of some educational process.
Ok, how do you know the human mind then? There’s only one way to know the human mind and that is to be above and beyond it.
We were talking awhile ago about people of exceptional talent. I remember one time a man was in my house; he came down from Pittsburgh. He was about fifty years of age, rather raucous, noisy, vulgar, meaning he cursed every other word. He was born and raised an autistic child. And I maintain ever since I met the first autistic child that they’re superior people, not inferior. They’re disgusted with the human race so they don’t care to cooperate. But I was watching this fellow; we would say things and he’d respond.
Some of the boys in the room got irritated with him and thought that he was like something that crawled out from under the rug. But the more I watched the more I knew that this man was enlightened. I’m not sure whether you people know what “enlightened” is – some people think it’s when they first take acid and other people think it’s when they get a PhD. But this is a state of mind in which you rise above all other states of mind. And here’s a guy who’s talking like a maniac, and I sensed that he was enlightened. He talked seven hours without stopping; he was manic and when he got through being manic he was then depressed.
But we had a boy there who had his Masters in Psychology – he’s now studying for his PhD – he approached this fellow after the talk was over and he said, “Mr. So-and-so, how long do you think it will be before you’re sane?” Of course that’s not a very tactful approach for a psychologist. And I said, “J. that man knows more than you’ll ever learn in your lifetime.” And this fellow turned around to him and said, “Son, you’re thinking about it from here. You’ve got to get above it to know what’s here.” And that’s the same way with sanity. To judge sanity you’ve got to be above sanity.
Anyhow, there’s a purpose behind my interest in hypnosis. I’ll read you some of these. And the reason I’m reading them is because they seem absurd.
- With it, the salesman multiplies his percentages of success.
How many of you are salesmen? Ever talk to a salesman and he said, “I watched their eyes, and a little thin thing came over their eyes, a veil, and I knew that they were sold.” This is every day’s life. You can turn on the TV and what do you get? Hypnosis.
Hypnosis is work in everyday life. Now of course some people hypnotize each other, but they have nature to help them. It opens psychological doors that make for a better medic, lecturer, personnel or public relations man. It puts you at ease in demanding interactions with the business world and the fellow workers.
Of course it’s a brainwasher too. Years ago I worked as a chemist and when I got back to West Virginia I thought I’d go down to one of these salt plants and get a job as a chemist. I went in and they had a long questionnaire and I started to read it. And I realized that they could take that questionnaire – a series of questions that have nothing to do with your ability to fly off your head and maybe hurt somebody, or having a certain sexual fetish that they might not want around the plant – but they set these things up, 50 questions or so, worded in such a way that they can get an inside view of whomever they’re hiring, so they won’t have any trouble with them.
So this is more rampant than what we think. And television itself – I wonder sometimes whether it’s wise to have it in your living room if you have children. Not from the idea of the moral negativity but the idea of the hypnotic effects. That people watch a movie actress doing something – to give you an example I think the Dukes of Hazzard is the cause of more destruction among young people than any other film they put out. Because it appeals to a certain stage that boys go through, about 15 years of age, and they’re very impatient to get out and make their mark in life.
- Psychosomatic illnesses – Hypnosis in health and healing
You can cure people. I’m going to give you an example. Any of you ever hear of Bridey Murphy? Bridey Murphy was a case of hypnosis with regression – somebody had hypnotized this American girl [Virginia Tighe, in 1952] and taken her back to a previous incarnation supposedly, in Ireland, and it caused quite a bit of furor because a lot of people who didn’t believe in reincarnation thought it endangered their own theological convictions, and thought it was time to lower the boom and stop it, investigate it until it was proved invalid.
So I got a call from a fellow from Steubenville, Ohio – well, I had contacted him because I heard he was a member of a psychic society. I could stay here all night and tell you about the investigations we went through with the materializations, right in Steubenville.
I thought, well, we’ll investigate it. He called me up and got me interested. We went up and we’d get subjects and hypnotize them, and I’ll tell you there are some amazing things you can learn. I also knew a hypnotist who was able to hypnotize people and take them back into previous incarnations – let’s say into knowledge: I’m not going to say it’s incarnations because we can’t prove it. But he could take them back and they would come up with some valid information.
The Bridey Murphy case never came up with anything that was vindicated. They did some research on it but they never could prove that she really existed. But this fellow told me you could get people who seemed to be able to pick up something like a racial mind, or genetic mind. For instance he hypnotized a girl of Greek descent and she told about a previous life on a Greek island as a monk. So he got ahold of an American naval map and there was no such island. But by chance he ran into a British naval map and they found that the island was listed on the British map. So then he wrote to somebody in Greece and they said that the island was abandoned but at one time it had a monastery on it. So it was a kind of a validation, unless he hypnotized somebody who was clever enough to fabricate all this stuff.
Back into childhood
So anyhow, my wife was young at the time and she had a friend who was about 20 or 21 years of age and she was epileptic. She would take these spells about every two weeks. And I asked her if she would care to be a subject. She came down to the house and I hypnotized her, and I took her back into her school. I had somebody writing down everything she said. And I did such things as saying, “Who’s the teacher up in the front of the room now?”
Incidentally, we could get into this without any difficulty but it takes an hour. Tonight we’ve only got a couple hours and there’s no sense in getting a lot of data. I think maybe we’d do better to get information on hypnosis. It takes an hour to go through it because it’s laborious: say you’re in college now so I’ll take you back to your senior year in high school and who your teachers were, the mathematics teacher, the English teacher and so on. You go back and they name the teachers, and then you say, “Who’s sitting on your right side? Who’s sitting on your left side?” And you write all these names down.
And you just keep going and back into grade school. And they give you names, sometimes they hesitate. I’ll say, “Come on, who’s on your left side?” and they’ll say, “Nobody.” “What do you mean nobody?” Well, maybe that’s somebody sitting on the aisle. But they’re really there, they’re really in the room.
Then you wake them up and you say, “Who was your teacher in high school?” And they say so-and-so. Then you go back say to grade school, and say, “Who was your teacher in grade school?” “Oh, I think that was so-and-so.” “Who was sitting on your right side?” “How would I know?” “How about on your left side?” “Geez, what do you expect me to know?” She’s not hypnotized now. So I went through them and said, “Would it be John so-and-so?” And she looked at me and said, “How did you know?” And I said, “Never mind, let’s go on.” And then, “How about the other side?” And I was naming these people off of the paper.
She picked up I’d say ninety percent of them, and it got back to where in the first grade it was vague. She was real cooperative. And I’ve always thought this in hypnosis, that if you have a subject, they are providing a service. Sometimes they think, well this could be ridicule; if the guy wanted to he could play some trick on them, make them think they’re flying or something like that.
But I always felt an obligation – it wasn’t an obligation, it would just come to me – I’d say, “Gee, what can I do for her now? She’s been so cooperative.” I remember she was epileptic, and I said, “You’re going to be free from your spells. You’re going to be totally free from these spells.” And I thought, “What do I have to lose? What does she have to lose?” She went a year, that I know of. From every two weeks she went a year without having a spell.
So little things like that pile up and you begin to realize that there’s something here. First of all the average person thinks that hypnosis is a farce. That you get somebody who pretends to be a subject. And incidentally I’ve seen hypnotists do that – they’d have somebody come along with them and they’d be trained to fall or whatever.
But anyhow, the more you work with it the more you find hidden potentials. And I don’t think there’s any limit. For instance, this business of regression – I don’t know whether you’ve ever heard of Dianetics. Ron Hubbard, who died just recently, established a tremendous cult called Scientology, maybe you’ve heard of that. Dianetics graduated into Scientology. But he started off with regression. He took people back and found the cause of their trauma, and it got him to writing about it, and then he developed a system to relieve people of traumas. Now that’s as far as I go, I don’t know whether Ron Hubbard had a foolproof system. I often suspected that he had a system by which you could blackmail people if you took a notion, because you’ve got a lot of data on people, these memories, recording what they say, their traumas. Sometimes traumas can be trouble for you later, a history of them.
He said you developed engrams - and could purge yourself of the engrams by reliving the experience. I don’t know what power he had but I do know he ran that into a fortune. I sometimes wonder whether going to the bank would take up more time than real service to humanity; too many trips to the bank and the bank becomes more important than the service.
- Psychosomatic illnesses.
I put on a little Chautauqua, strictly on hypnosis. I showed them how to take pain away. [See 1980s-Chautauqua-Hypnosis-Demonstration ] You can take pain out of a person’s body. You can see it and locate it. The mind has power over the body. The body’s on top right now; with nearly everyone the body’s on top. The body drains the mind and kills it, ultimately. So consequently autosuggestion or suggestion of some sort is used. If that’s what it takes to get back control of your body, that’s the only time I recommend using autosuggestion. If you’re out of control of your body you can get back in control using autosuggestion. And start going to church.
Autohypnosis is a field in itself. Autohypnosis is the most dangerous form of hypnosis. Because if you have a hypnotist he can bring you out if there are any symptoms of nervousness – sometimes people get hysterical under hypnosis. With autohypnosis, if you do succeed in getting yourself hypnotized, you have no one there to awaken you. I’m not saying it would kill you. Nobody dies from sleeping under hypnosis – that’s an illusion. You sleep out of it. If I were to hypnotize somebody here and walk away, in four hours’ time he’d wake up. This rabbit did a lot quicker. I don’t know why these things are brought up either; maybe to frighten people away from hypnosis.
And of course research in hypnosis cannot be done by scientists. As soon as it gets into the medical profession – they find it may be an attribute, but then they start using the drugs. They can put you under, give you a shot of something that will make you sleepy and then talk to you while that drug’s taking effect, and you’ll be an a hypnotic condition. But I don’t think a person should resort to drugs unless it’s the last step. Also we don’t know the effect. The drug produces a momentary effect but there’s no long prediction on what allergy might result from taking anything.
Hypnosis can be diagnostic – this is in an advanced stage – an advanced hypnotist can diagnose by being able to sense where pain is or where a mental block is, and this is a valid shortcut. Whereas in a conscious patient, as soon as he goes to a doctor, he (and mostly she) generally tries to get cured without ever informing the doctor of really what’s wrong. I think about 40% of the medical diagnoses have to be done in spite of the patient. There are a lot of things we don’t want to face.
And hypnosis can directly remove pain. I was a young fellow when I first got to hypnotizing people, and the way we had to test whether a person was asleep was to stick them with a pin. I just remarked the other day that I never realized how stupid this was. Of course nobody in those days had AIDS, but you don’t go at people with a stick pin.
You can develop sensitivities with hypnosis and with sensitivities comes extrasensory perception. And of course mathematics. I remember one time I was talking to a young fellow who was taking mathematics in high school and he couldn’t make it through a grade. So I said, “Hey, just for the heck of it, I’ll hypnotize you before you go over to take your test. All this stuff that you’re not remembering – you’ve been exposed to it. So what I’m going to do, I’m going to help you remember everything you’ve heard in math.” And he came back and said he passed. I was amazed. So all this stuff has been tried.
I wanted to get at the thing that got me started in hypnosis. I had an obsession for discovering the human mind when I was fairly young – and prior to that I had had an obsession for finding God. But it was such a tremendous task that I couldn’t go about it scientifically with my intellect. So I kind of gave up and became an atheist for a few years. And so I got into hypnosis. And I thought that if there’s any way of understanding my nature - if I’ve got a soul – then let’s look inside. Let’s go through it that way. And how do you look inside? What’s the facility, the faculty? The mind. Ok, so let’s see if we can sharpen this mind so we can see what this human being is made of subjectively – not physically.
I was in college at the time and I started hypnotizing some people. And that was fascinating. Of course, when I found out I could do it, I didn’t seem to know what to do with it. So I more or less set it aside.
But I have here tonight the book that I studied hypnosis under when I went to college. The TAT Foundation publishes books, and every good book I run across that’s out of circulation we get it and try to print it, and make it available. But this was one.
[The Law of Suggestion. By Santanelli, Pyramid Press, West Virginia. 176 pp.]
I’ll tell you about books on hypnosis: Anything put out by Melvin Powers will not help you. I went through a bunch of them just to see if there was any information in them. In other words you want a technique that is foolproof, that if you persist at it you will learn to hypnotize. And I have never found a book [other than Santanelli] that actually shows you how to do it. I mean they will go through certain things for you, they will describe states, but they presume not to know anything about it.
Santanelli died at the turn of the century. He was a hypnotist in the last century. And his analysis of the human mind is superior to the psychological views today in many respects. And he defines it. Now I understand that some, even psychologists, don’t think that hypnosis can be defined. But it can be defined. The definition of hypnosis depends upon just the action. You know, what is a dog house? A doghouse is a combination of boards and nails; you use a hammer and you get the boards the right length and you nail them together and you make a doghouse. And hypnosis is the result of actions.
Along the way when I was out hypnotizing people I discovered something. I would wear myself and them out with an object dangling in front of their eyes, making passes. And one day I looked into one of these people’s eyes and I thought, “Oh, they’re asleep.”
I didn’t have to stick anybody with pins anymore; I could tell by looking. Then I got so I could tell by feeling; I could feel that they were asleep. Then I could feel what they were thinking sometimes. And told them what they were thinking.
But there’s no guarantee in these things; they come and they go.
Coming up in the car from Wheeling one time with a group of people – we were holding a Chautauqua in the west end of Cleveland. We had a truckload of materials – books and stuff – and a carload of girls following us. And I noticed that the car was dragging back behind. So I said to the man with me, “I’ll tell you what they’re saying in that car. The girl who’s driving says, ‘I will not go one mile more than fifty miles an hour, I don’t care if we lose him.’ “And they were back about a mile.
So we pulled into a McDonalds hamburger joint. I was pointing it out to the fellows as we came through today: “That’s the hamburger joint we stopped at.” Anyway, Frank was riding with me and his wife was in the car with the women. And Frank says, “Mr. Rose says he heard you talking.” So his wife says, “What did he say?” And I said, “Linda said she wouldn’t go one mile over fifty miles an hour even if she lost us.” And that was verbatim of what she said.
That hasn’t happened to me every day or every year – it’s very seldom – and there’s no predicting when it’s going to happen. And if somebody asks me, “What am I thinking?” – I couldn’t answer. But these are insights you get from contagion, propinquity, or whatever you want to call it.
They say that sometimes after you’re married to the same person you pick up the same thoughts, and I’ve had that happen occasionally. Where I’d start to say something and my wife would finish it. So that’s a rapport - that’s what I call it. You get a rapport with a person. And you can even get in rapport with an animal. You can tell what an animal is thinking; some people do. I think a lot of it depends upon maybe the physical action of the animal – animals have a way of showing that they’re happy and that sort of thing.
But going on from this, I came to the conclusion – I forgot all about hypnosis and went into this business of seeing what could be gained through rapport.
I’ll close with an explanation which I hope I don’t have to enlarge upon. Quite a few years later – fifteen years later – I was studying with a Zen master from Connecticut [Alfred Pulyan], and he was able to project a certain experience, without words. And I picked it up. And he didn’t tell me but I knew. I not only knew, but because I had been fooling with this before, I knew how he did it, and I was able to do it.
So this is the acme of rapport in my estimation. That you can communicate things that really matter at the right time. For instance, just like people who are dying – they’re not able to talk but you have a rapport with them, you know what they’re thinking. And that’s not uncommon. Quite a few people are that way.
Now I wanted to get into showing you a little about it. We have plenty of time – is anyone interested in seeing hypnosis? Do we have any hands on anybody who’s willing to be hypnotized?
[Selects several volunteers, male and female, and gets them seated in the front.]
I try to get people who I consider to be more quickly receptive. There’s a law about hypnosis. Anybody can be hypnotized, but not anybody can hypnotize everybody. I never could hypnotize my wife. She hypnotized me. [laughter] But there was a fellow who came to the house that could. And he was a better hypnotist than I when it came to my wife.
[More conversation as people are arranged.]
Ok, now I’m going to show you some of the techniques for testing people. One thing about it is, I will not ridicule, I will not play tricks. And that’s so you can relax, and beyond that we’ll see that you don’t get hurt.
I want you to stand up here – up overhead, look at that dot there on the wall. What this basically calls for is something more vertical but I can’t nail anything on the ceiling.
Now I’m going to stand behind you and talk to you. What I want you to do is keep looking, the eyes in the same position but close the eyes and look at that dot through the eyelids. Now I’m going to make a few passes [vertical hand movements behind the person’s back]. Now what happens is this will give you a degree of instability. You’ll feel unstable. You’ll feel that you’re leaning backwards. And you’ll try to pull yourself frontwards. But the end result is that the more you try to pull yourself frontwards the more you’ll be pulled backwards.
[To 1st person] Ok, now I’m going to see – I don’t think you can be pushed frontwards, so I’m going to try – I think you’re more inclined to lean backwards. Yeah, yeah, your muscles are going asleep there. Ok. So we do it again? There we go. Ok, you go sit down.
[To 2nd person] You feel anything? Q. The body holds seems a little ... R. Yeah.
[To 3rd person] You do the same for me. You look at the dot for awhile. Now that you have a good look at it you close your eyes.
Q I‘m falling already. [laughter]
R. Yeah. Don’t be afraid, because we’re going to have a person right behind you, and I guarantee you’re not going to get hurt. So you’re looking at it? Now close your eyes and look at it through your eyelids. Ok, here we go. I’m going to make three passes, and you’re going to sway backwards. The more you try to pull frontwards the more you lean backwards. You’re perfectly safe. Don’t worry about it. There you go. There you go. Keep your eyes shut. That’s it. Ok.
Now, you’re feeling unsteady, you seem to be moving, you seem to be moving a bit now. Can you control yourself and keep stabilized? Can you keep yourself stabilized so that you don’t fall?
Q. I can’t stop rocking.
R. Ok, that’s alright. I’m just watching for effects, that’s all. Ok, you’ll hear me talking to you. Ok, now, we’ll try again, here we go. There’s the dot. This is very good.
[To 4th person] You want to try it? You’re big but we can catch you. Look at the dot the same way they did. Ok, close your eyes and look at it. Now we’re just going to see if you’re sensitive to this, but don’t worry about it. We’re not going to let anybody get hurt. Now you’re pulled back, you feel you’re being pulled backwards. And of course you’ll fight it a little bit, you’ll fight it a little bit. Ok, ok, that’s it, yeah, ok. That’s alright, go sit down.
[To 5th person] You want to try it? Ok, now what i want you to do – I want you to imagine that you’re in a boat, and the boat is rocking, the boat is rocking sort of sideways, and the only relief that you can get from this – you’ll get unstable, get tremendously unstable – and as I make these passes you’ll be inclined – trying to get you to relax in the back of the boat. Picture a boat rocking in the choppy water. Ok, okidoki, ok. That’s alright, you can sit down.
[To 6th person] How about you? Now you go ahead and look at that while I’m talking.
[To earlier subject] Did you feel dizzy? [To another] Do you feel dizzy? You did?
[Back to 6th person] Ok, close your eyes and look up through your eyelids. Ok, and again. Here we go. Pulling you backwards. There we go. There we go. Right back. Relax. Relax because we’re here. Relax. Ok, now real strong and back, there we go. Pull on you real strong. Real strong. Relax, we’re right behind you. Right behind you. Now fall back in this old chair. That’s it. There you go.
This is good. This is what you look for.
[To 7th person] You want to do it?
While we’re talking I want to bring out a point or two. Hypnosis was once thought to be done on feeble-minded people only. But what I find is that only highly sensitive people can be hypnotized. That’s what I find.
There are several ways of putting people to sleep. For people that are low sensitivity – there are different techniques you can use; it’s more like mesmerism. But the basis of hypnosis requires sensitive nerve ends.
We’re going to do another test now. All these people who had their hands up – sit down if you will and make yourselves comfortable so you don’t fall. There’s nothing dangerous. But I want all of you to clasp your hands like this [palms facing, fingers interlaced]. See how I’m doing this. With enough pressure so that it shows white. You can all hear this. I’m going to come down the line and catch each one of you, making a mark. [Puts a dot on each person’s top thumb with a marker.]
Now what we’re doing – and anybody in the audience can do this – what we’re doing is to test yourself. That if you hold your hands together and pick a spot on your hand, and hold your attention on it, same as I’m doing for them, and as I count you increase the pressure because you want the hands really tight. And if your hands happen to lock, don’t get excited. They’ll come apart.
Ok, Now I want you to look at this dot on your hand as if it’s the end of a wire. And this wire goes through all of your fingers. That’s the reason your fingers are locked together. Now you don’t have to imagine that but just - I want you to look upon that as the end of a wire. The secret of this is to not take your eyes off of it.
From this point on, don’t look up at me. Don’t look up at me, because I want your total attention on this point. And I’m going to count, and when I reach seven – each time I count the hands get tighter. So we presume that at the count of seven your hands are at the maximum. At that point hold them that way – do not take your eyes off of them. And even if I come through and touch your hands, don’t take your eyes off that point.
Putting to sleep
Ok, we’re going to start now, you’ll look at the point: 1 – tight – 2 – tighter – 3 – tighter – 4 – 5 – 6 – very tight – 7 – and your hands are locked. [To each subject, down the row] Your hands are locked. Your hands are locked. Your hands are locked. Your hands are locked. Your hands are locked. Tightly locked. Tightly locked. Very tightly locked. Very tightly locked. Very tightly locked. [pause] Very tightly locked. Keep the pressure. Keep the pressure. Very tightly locked. Very tightly locked. Ok. Keep your eyes on it. Ok.
Now, what I want you to do is to not relax but pull your hands apart – see if you can do it and you’ll find it’s impossible. Just pull. Pull and you’ll see – not only that they don’t come apart but they get tighter. In many instances they’ll get tighter. They’ll get tighter. 1 – 2 – 3 – 4 – 5 – 6 – 7 – very tight. Very tight.
[Has placed his thumb on the person’s forehead, pressing between the eyes.] Now keep your head in that position. Look up through your eyelids like you did before at the wall – except at my thumb-point. Keep your eyes shut but look up through your eyelids. Up. Up. That’s right. Ok, I’m going to count to seven again: 1 – 2 – 3 – 4 – 5 – 6 – 7 – your eyes now are looking at my thumb and your eyes are sealed shut. And no matter what you do to try to open them they remain stuck. Try it. See? Your eyes are stuck together. 1 – 2 – 3 – 4 – 5 – 6 – 7 – ok.
[To next person] Look up there. Close your eyes and look up at my thumb on your forehead. That’s it. Now I’m going to count to seven and your eyes will be stuck together. 1 – 2 – 3 – 4 – 5 – 6 – 7. Keep looking up. That’s it. Your eyes are locked. They’re sticking. And you’ll notice at any time you try to open them they get tighter.
[Next] Ok, look up through your eyelids at my thumb. That’s it. Close your eyes. Close your eyes. Look up. That’s it. That’s what you have to do. Ok, I’m going to count to seven: 1 – 2 – 3 – 4 – 5 – 6 – 7. Your eyes are locked tight. Keep looking. Try to open them. Your eyes are stuck. Your eyes are stuck. Your eyes are stuck – and – you – are – in – deep – sleep. Deep asleep.
[Next] Ok, look up through your eyelids. That’s it. I’ll count to seven: 1 – 2 – 3 – 4 – 5 – 6 – 7. Your eyes are stuck together and anything you do to try to open them makes them stick tighter. Look and try. Try to open them. Try to open them. 1 – 2 – 3 – 4 – 5 – 6 – 7. Your eyes are locked shut. You’re deep asleep.
[Next] Look up through your eyelids. That’s it. I’ll count to seven. Keep looking right at the point of my thumb. 1 – 2 – 3 – 4 – 5 – 6 – 7. Your eyes are locked in sleep. Anything you do to try to open them makes them stick tighter. Go ahead and try and look. See if you can – to sleep. Ok.
[Next] Look up through your eyelids at my thumb. Now I’ll count to seven. 1 – 2 – 3 – 4 – 5 – 6 – 7. You’re deep asleep.
[Next] Look up through your eyelids at my thumb. I’m going to count to seven and your eyes will begin to shut. 1 – 2 – 3 – 4 – 5 – 6 – 7. Your eyes are glued together. Your eyes stay that way. You’re deep asleep.
[Next] I’ll count to seven. 1 – 2 – 3 – 4 – 5 – 6 – 7. Your eyes are going to shut. Your eyes are glued shut. You’re going asleep. Try to open them and they stay stuck together.
[Next] Look up at my thumb – that’s it. That’s it, look right through there. That’s it. 1 – 2 – 3 – 4 – 5 – 6 – 7. Your eyes are glued, you try to open them and you’ll see they’re stick together. There you are, gone to sleep
[Next] Look up through your eyelids at my thumb. 1 – 2 – 3 – 4 – 5 – 6 – 7. Your eyes are glued shut. Try to open them and you’ll see that your eyes are shut and your efforts are useless. You’re deep asleep.
[Next] Look up through your eyelids at my thumb. That’s it Close your eyes and look up. That’s it. Close your eyes and look through your eyelids. That’s it. Ok, now I’m going to count to seven. Your eyes will be stuck. 1 – 2 – 3 – 4 – 5 – 6 – 7. It’s that simple. Your eyes are shut. Try to open them, they’ll stick. Ok.
I’m going to touch your hand, and when I touch your hand I’ll say, “Now.” And when I say “now” – everybody relax their hands. You’re still sound asleep but you will relax your hands. Your sleepiness will be retained strictly in your mind and head. 1-2-3 NOW. Relax the hands. Let your hands drop. Let your hands drop. You’re still sound asleep. Ok.
[To earlier subject] Now I’m going to wake you up. I don’t know your name but I have your hand. I’m going to wake you up and I’m going to give you a magic word. The magic word is “parthenos” I hope no one knows what that means. That’s Greek– anybody Greek here? I try to use a Greek word to keep people from [accidentally hearing a common word].
I’m going to use the word parthenos, and the word parthenos will be a key word, and when you hear the word parthenos – from me only – you’ll go to sleep. So in the meantime I’m going to count and wake you up. And when I do I’m going to count backwards. I’m going to count from seven backwards to one, and then when I clap my hands you’ll be wide awake. 7 – 6 – 5 – 4 – 3 – 2 - 1 [loud clap]. Wide awake. Ok.
[Next person] Well, I’m going to touch the top of your head, and I’m going to waken you up by counting backwards from seven to one, and everything will be just exactly as it was when you left, except that everybody’s gone but you. You’ll be the only one here; a bit of time has elapsed. So you just wake up and relax. I’ll count backwards from seven to one – and I’m going to give you a magic word and the magic word will be “bazaloyo”. Bazaloyo. And when you hear the word bazaloyo you’ll go to sleep immediately. 7 – 6 – 5 – 4 – 3 – 2 – 1 [clap] Wide awake. Wide awake.
[Next] I’m going to wake you up. I’ll count backwards from seven to one. I’ll touch you on the top of the head so you’ll know I’m talking to you. 7 – 6 – 5 – 4 – 3 – 2 – 1 [clap] Wide awake.
[Next] I’ll touch you on the top of the head. 7 – 6 – 5 – 4 – 3 – 2 – 1. You’ll wake up when I clap my hands. [clap] Ok. How do you feel? Everybody feel good? You feel alright? Do you feel a little bit sleepy?
R. I’m going to open your eyes. 7 – 6 – 5 – 4 – 3 – 2 – 1 [clap] You’re in a sleep state. Maybe someone just wrap her up and take her home. [laughter and long pause]
[loudly] I’m touching your head. Your name is Mable? Your name is Mable. Mable, I’m going to count backwards from seven to one, to wake you up. And Mable, you will only respond to your name Mable. When you hear the word Mable you’ll be able to go to sleep, and relax completely. But right now we want to wake you up. 7 – 6 – 5 – 4 – 3 – 2 – 1 [clap] Wide awake.
[Next] There’s another one here. I’m going to count backwards from seven to one. 7 – 6 – 5 – 4 – 3 – 2 – 1 [clap]
[Next] Ok, now I’m going to count and put my hand on your head so you’ll know I’m here, and I’m going to count backwards from seven to one. And when I reach one you’ll be wide awake. 7 – 6 – 5 – 4 – 3 – 2 – 1 [clap] Wide awake. That feel good?
Q. I don’t know.
R. Well, there’s a whole number of things that can be done. We’ve got a couple of very good subjects. And I would guess several – she’s a good subject, he’s a very good subject, and you. Did you go to sleep? Do you remember anything?
Q. Not sure.
R. Oh, yeah, uh-huh, I think that was down here, that’s parthenos. [pause] Parthenos, parthenos, parthenos. There you go. Relax.
[next] What’s your name?
R. Bazaloyo. You remember bazaloyo? You don’t?
R. No? Did you think about it?
R. That’s a sleepy word. A sleepy word. Your head gets heavy now. [laughter]. What do you feel like?
Q. I thought I felt conflict. I mean, I thought I was ... I don’t know.
R. Who is that? Oh, Mabel.
Q. Yes, sir.
R. Ok Mabel, I’m going to wake you up now and clap my hands. I’ll clap my hands three times and then you’ll be awake. 3 – 2 – 1 [clap] Wide awake.
[reaction of surprise & some chit-chat]
[Next] I’m going to awaken you, with reverse counting, seven to one. When I reach one your eyes will be open and you’ll be wide awake. 7 – 6 – 5 – 4 – 3 – 2 – 1. [clap]
Are you clear – is your head clear? Ok.
[The demonstration to this point lasted 33 minutes.]
A lot of you people are good subjects. Now I wanted to show you what is called a post-hypnotic suggestion. A post-hypnotic suggestion is something you give a person and they will act it out at that time. They claim the human mind has the ability for certain things. They have taken some experiments, and I haven’t done this because for one thing I don’t have the time. But this is one of the things I feel that can be embarked upon. There are a lot of experiments you can work at; you can gather information as you go.
There’s a limited amount of time. For instance if we did anything here it would take 3/4ths of an hour to conclude the experiment, and I don’t want to get into that, I’d rather go through and familiarize you with what can be done. But they have hypnotized people and told them that in exactly 600 minutes or 300 minutes from that moment – that they would do a certain thing. Which might mean pick up the phone and call you. Or bark like a dog, whatever it is. If you’re going to be just having fun you may make it something absurd.
Q. Could you do it like in ten minutes?
R. You can do it as late as a week, and it seems to work out. A week later.
Is there anybody back there who still has their hands stuck? Let me know, because this happens sometimes; people in the audience that will experience the same effect that this fellow had.
Q. If a post-hypnotic suggestion were something I was opposed to doing, would I still do it?
R. Yes. Yes.
Q. What prohibits someone from going under? Because I didn’t go under.
R. Well, that’s what I said in the very beginning. Anybody can be hypnotized. You can be hypnotized, but what I did here was run through a rapid technique. With some people all you have to do is point at them and they’ll go to sleep. Other people you have to work with for hours.
I was in my freshman year in college when I got ahold of this book [Santanelli]. Someone has some copies in the back of the room there. We made them available. Because in my estimation it’s the only book that actually takes you step by step, very clearly, what to do, what to say, what type of self-confidence you have to have, and how to exert that self-confidence. Because you have to believe in what you’re doing. The other thing is to never get any ideas that you’re going to play any tricks on people.
At Ohio State University over 30 years ago they discovered that hypnosis can be effected by subjecting a person to a certain electrical voltage. It was published in an Ohio State newspaper but I threw the paper away, I lost it. And I tried to get people that were going to Ohio State – I used to give lectures over there – to see if they could find it in the archives, under student activities or psychological experimentation, but they never could find it.
But there are different ways. One of those things I read off the list was “power”. And there is power but it’s mental power, not power over people.
One thing, I believe that every person should make up their mind in advance to, that you’ll never embarrass anybody, unless you’re doing it for entertainment and they know they’re going to be embarrassed, or something of that sort.
You never choose any personal domination over a person. You never get into that, because of the simple fact that the human mind – the system I use is rapport – I watch the mind as it works. Ok, if you get into rapport with me, whatever I’m thinking, you will know. So consequently if I’ve got any devious thoughts you’ll pick them up.
Q. Certain touches and certain sites stimulate the glands in the brain – and like the white lines on the highway – it’s common knowledge that that’s a hypnotic thing ...
R. Same as the rabbit.
Q. ... but is there any physical evidence that this stimulation starts the gland’s production to cause this hypnotic state?
R. No, I don’t think so. Whatever this is, it happens within seconds.
Q, Well, so does a chemical. If you take a chemical into your body it happens within seconds. But the physical evidence shows that the gland has been stimulated.
R. Well, if there is I wouldn’t know what type of gland it would be and what effect it would have on making you lose control of your consciousness. Basically – there was a fellow here tonight who said they have no definition for hypnosis and I said I’d tell you later on:
Hypnosis is basically where one mind enters another person’s head and takes control. In other words there’s a substance called mind, detachable from the body. I’m not going to try to prove it, because to get into it is a tremendous lot – but it’s a lifetime of experience with me.
The mere fact that you can read a person’s mind and you know what they’re thinking – that’s because you’re somehow able to get into that mind. Now whether it’s halfway between you and me or it’s all the way over on your side of the room, it’s still there. This is what happens. And seemingly we’re aware of it. I discovered it when I was going through the laborious system of hypnotizing people with passes. And you make passes and passes and passes and there’s no response, and then I’d talk, “Sleep, sleep, sleep” and all that sort of thing. And – a couple hours after that, finally the guy surrenders and goes to sleep.
Q. Do you believe there is something called the universal mind?
R. I think there’s a lot of meaning in that word. In fact, I’ll tell you, my personal feeling about that – and again it would take quite a bit of conversation to explain it – I am deeply convinced that it’s a dimension. It’s a dimension. We are made of mind. We are made of mind. And that’s the reason I’m saying that this exercise – the business of studying the mind – takes you closer to it. I believe that. I believe in going there from the very beginning. I don’t believe in the entertainment angle. I’m trying to get people interested in doing research. To get groups of people together.
Because I’ll tell you why. Good subjects are as important as the hypnotist. I wrote to people all over the country to find out what different hypnotists could do, people who weren’t stage hypnotists. And I encountered the fellow I was telling you about, who hypnotized a girl, she said she was of Greek ancestry, she named an island in Greece, and they validated it later on a British admiralty map. What he was into, what he had done – he had hypnotized his niece, that’s what had gotten him interested in it – and his niece could read headlines on tomorrow’s paper. So you’ll run into phenomena that you’ve never dreamed of.
Q. You were talking about a woman at the beginning of the lecture, and I don’t know whether it’s the same person, but a woman in California who is a psychologist and hypnotizes people to cure them of phobias, traces their phobias back to previous lives. She hypnotizes them to take them back to a traumatic event and corrects whatever it is, or has them talk through it. Do you believe in that?
R. I will not say anything is impossible in this line. I don’t know. But I do know that the field is also wide open for setting things up. So we always have to be cognizant of that. If somebody says ...
Q. Well, does that make sense to you? Because you said you had done something like that where you take people back.
R. Oh that? Yes, but as far as curing – you don’t have to take them back to cure them, you can go directly to it.
One of the tricks we used to do – and I don’t want to do it here because it’s time-consuming and it’s a prank, just something for the fun of it – that is, somebody wants to cure themselves of smoking, we could cure them of smoking, right here. And then I’d get somebody to give him a match and a cigarette, but it will make him sick, he’ll cough and cough and finally he’ll quit trying. Now the value of that goes on for a week or two, then it wears off. That’s what I said, you can’t really – you have to repeat it about every two weeks until the chemical demand in the body for nicotine falls off. So you’ve got to go back every couple of weeks.
Power & Progression
So we don’t know how far this can take us. One of the things I was talking about on the poster [mental power] – was this Kapila fellow – Kapila’s eye – and it seems utterly absurd. But – I came across in esoteric philosophy something called the Law of Progression.
The Law of Progression says that If there’s a smart man then there’s one smarter. And if there is knowledge, there is somewhere more knowledge. And it seems that way in all fields. I majored in Chemistry a long time ago and we thought we had absolute knowledge on the formation of molecular structures and stuff. It was called the valence theory. My daughter goes and majors in college and she comes home and says, “Dad, it’s the ‘bond’ theory.” In other words the whole system of thinking has changed.
Psychology is in its infancy. And the real phenomena – the psychologists do not care to touch. Because of the simple fact that they are scientists of the mind but they know nothing about the mind, let alone the spirit.
That there’s something here that somehow each of us has – when people die and they come back. My brother was in a car wreck out West. He was born and raised a Catholic. So the hospital called me long distance and they said, “Your brother’s not going to make it, he’s going to die.” They had him in an Army hospital along the highway, the closest hospital. Smashed his ribs and stuff. So they said, “Is there anything we should know? And I said, “Yes, he’s a Catholic so he’d want a priest. Other than that I can’t tell you.“ And I said I was trying to get out there before he died.
Well in the meantime his wife comes in. His wife wasn’t a Catholic and to her, Catholics were demon-worshippers. Well she came in and here’s an Army chaplain giving the Last Rites of the Church – and she’s cursing him, “Get out of here you blankety-blank demon worshipper.” And my brother saw all this. He’s supposed to be dying, but he came back. He told us. He said it was the most hilarious thing he ever witnessed. Number one he got away from his wife, and then from the priest and the drama. [Elsewhere R has said his brother viewed the scene from the ceiling, floating above the hospital table.]
This shows you that there’s something alive about us besides this body. And modern psychology refuses to treat anything but the body. Now, like the man who was born an autistic child – he said you’re not going to know psychology until you get above it. Not from below. You’re not going to come in through the body. And the best way to know it is to start working with the mind. That’s my belief.
We’re going to be someplace in Akron this coming Saturday. At 10:00 a.m.?
Casari: Yes, it’s at Springfield Township Town Hall. [This would be 2/20/1988 – do we have a tape of this?]
R. We’ll have more time there. If you want to practice hypnosis, try to learn how to do it, or if you want to go into anything in depth, I’d like to see some of you get together. I can’t be here, you know, I’m good for about two more years and then I think I’m going to retire – before they retire me. But I’d like to see some of these things formed. TAT has groups formed as it is but we don’t have an active hypnosis study group, and that’s what I’d like to see happen.
Q. I have a question on regression. When he takes a person back, can a hypnotist leave a person stuck in that regression?
R. Those things are only good for a certain time; like I said about giving a person a suggestion about not smoking cigarettes, all suggestions are temporal.
Q. When you take a person back to a past life, can he be stuck there?
R. No. I don’t think so. I don’t think so.
That was what we were after. We never got past babyhood. We couldn’t even get back to infancy. We were trying to get back gradually to a day before [birth]. I’ve taken a few people back and asked them what happened two years ago.
Q. I have a friend and she’s a professional hypnotist. She takes them back into the birth canal, during birth.
R. Yeah? That’s amazing.
Q. On regressions, when you hypnotize them do they re-experience things to where they actually act it out?
R. Oh, yes. These are some things I don’t want to get into because we could do nothing but that. I’d rather discuss it so you can see how to do it and that sort of thing, and the susceptibility.
But one of the things I used to do is I’d hypnotize a person, just like I did here. And this one fellow – I didn’t think he was going to be a good subject – I thought, well, when I get over to him he’s not going to get hypnotized. But he went to sleep while I was talking. So I put him under hypnosis and I told him he was sleeping on the deck of a ship. And that I had to wake him because he couldn’t wake himself and the ship was on fire. And I said, “When you awaken you’ve got to get out and shout as loud as you can to get these other sailors out and save their lives.” So I clapped my hands and he leaped up and shouted, “Fire – man the lifeboats!” And then he shouted again and then he turned around and he looked and he wasn’t on board a ship. And it kind of ended there. But it was just to do something light-hearted.
Q. Can you hypnotize someone without them knowing it?
R. I think you could, with post-hypnotic suggestion; but that would be carrying on a previous hypnosis.
Mind as dimension
Q. Do you see mind and spirit as different?
R. I think that somehow we’ll discover when we dig into this stuff long enough, the next dimension you get into is the mind dimension; now that isn’t the terminal thing – there is an essence beyond that. This is the conclusion I have come to.
Bill Wilson & AA
Q. As far as Alcoholics Anonymous is concerned, does any of this pertain to that?
R. Do you know anything about Alcoholics Anonymous? Yes? Then you know Bill Wilson. Bill Wilson is the founder. Bill Wilson evolved that system because he was an enlightened man. Now you get all the information you can on him. I never knew who the man was but – I was giving a lecture in Columbus, Ohio one time and some people came up, a man and a wife, and said they were members of Alcoholics Anonymous and they told me about Bill Wilson. And they described him. And I got a book I was reading about him.
And what he did – he cured himself. He came across this idea that the only way you’re going to get cured from the hypnosis of alcohol was to give yourself over to a power greater than yourself. This is a very simple formula that works in all walks of life. If you really want to succeed – don’t work for yourself. And as a result of the traumas that he went through, he rose above what I consider the physical and mental needs of an animal, or a human being. And he chose to take that service; that was the type of service he chose to pay the debt back, so to speak, for the things he had done. So he was a tall man; he was a very tall man. They are strung out through history – you run into them every once and awhile.
Q. Why is a group necessary? Why can’t you just give yourself power?
R. Well, because I’ll tell you why – and I’m an authority on this because I was a loner. I was a loner for the first thirty years of my life. I did not bother with people. Male or female. I’ve never been one to – I wouldn’t let anybody touch me. I’d never shake hands with people. Because I sensed things; I was very sensitive and I felt contamination. I’d shake hands with somebody and I’d get an impression of what their private habits were, or what their thoughts were, or just their state of mind. And it would tear me away. So I would just go about my business and sometimes I’d get into trouble because people resent you for being snobbish.
And that stayed with me. And I was on a spiritual path; this is what I thought it was. This original experimentation with hypnosis took me into a spiritual path. In other words I started out looking for God and wound up looking for the mind.
If you get selfish you may succeed – there are a lot of people succeeding – but what are they succeeding in? They’re making money, that’s all. They’re succeeding in making money – but I don’t think they’re going to pick up – none of those people, I don’t care what walk of life they’re in, whether they’re gurus or priests or preachers or whatever they are – unless they work for the service of the human being.
And why? Why should we think that the other human beings are worth it? That’s the first impression. Just say, “Why are these people worth it?” But that seems to be the law. And this is what you discover if you go through these different things. You discover certain laws. And things work.
A salesman said to me one time that if you throw enough mud at the ceiling some of it will stick. And I thought that was a crude way of putting it but the guy had something. He went out, and it was a kind of a law established. You knock on so many doors and you’re going to sell your product. If you’re persistent. And the longer you’re persistent – and don’t work for the idea of cheating those people, work with the idea of bringing them something of value.
Q. You were talking about enlightened men – is there anybody currently alive you would consider to be an enlightened person?
R. Yes, I’ve made it my business to pick up a few.
Q. Would you care to name them?
R. Name them? You wouldn’t know them. One of them was a Zen teacher in Connecticut if he’s still living [Alfred Pulyan] ; the other one is a car salesman in San Antonio, Texas [Paul Wood. Was he in Dallas?]; and the third one is the fellow I was telling you about, the former autistic child in Pittsburgh, now fifty years of age [Jim Burns]. He’s a curse on psychiatrists – they’ve all tried to work on him and he said they all go out the window. They can’t figure him out. Those are three I can name real quick.
If you’re acquainted with Richard Maurice Bucke, he writes a book, it’s called Cosmic Consciousness, he says one in a million. He says the statistics on people that reach this are one in a million. And the amazing thing about it is – I think there was a greater chance when the population was thinner and technology was non-existent, or thinner. But with the increasing technology, the greater the strain on the human mind to remember all the things you have to do to make a living. And this takes up so much of your energy you can’t focus on a subjective matter. So we become Skinnerian zombies. We can’t get loose. We can’t get loose from the squirrel cage. A hundred years ago people could go out in the desert. Today there’s no room in the desert. There’s no place a person can go and actually be alone and think things out for themselves.
Q. Can you hypnotize people by looking at their eyes or is that a myth? By looking at them.
R. Oh yes. Yes.
Q. If there’s no place to go for people to be by themselves then how do you become enlightened?
R. Well – I’ll give you an example. When I was a boy there was nothing in the libraries. The good ladies from the different churches, as they hired the men that were in charge of the library, would burn all the literature about Theosophy, or George Gurdjieff, or whatever. So they got rid of it. There was no literature at all that you could get. I remember reading some books by Camille Flammarion ...
End of side 2
[Note: other tape recorders are present. Need to locate the rest of this talk.]