1984-0426-Peace-of-Mind-in-Spite-of-Success-Irwin-PA
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| Title | 1984-0426-Peace-of-Mind-in-Spite-of-Success-Irwin-PA |
| Recorded date | April 26, 1984 << Transcription on SearchWithin.Org is dated 4/19 not 4/26 |
| Location | Irwin, PA |
| Number of tapes | 2 |
| Other recorders audible? | |
| Alternate versions exist? | |
| Source | Paul Schmidt |
| No. of MP3 files | 5 mp3 file. #0 is 21 minutes chit-chat pre-lecture |
| Total time | 20:57 + 24:49 + 45:47 + 45:51 + 15:10 == |
| Transcription status | Done except 21 min pre-lecture |
| Link to distribution copy | http://distribution.direct-mind.org/ |
| Link to PDF | http://distribution.direct-mind.org/ Or try http://selfdefinition.org/rose/ |
| Published in what book? | |
| Published on which website? | This had been published on SearchWithin.Org (dated 4/19 not 4/26) but most of that transcription was Peace of Mind Akron, and was removed from SearchWithin in Jan. 2015. |
| Remarks | Needs section breaks |
| Audio quality | Audio quality very good - microphone |
| Identifiable voices | Bill King, Vince Lepidi |
| URL at direct-mind.org | https://www.direct-mind.org/index.php/1984-0426-Peace-of-Mind-in-Spite-of-Success-Irwin-PA |
| For access, send email to: editors@direct-mind.org | |
| Revision timestamp | 20150206115321 |
Notes
Side 2 is missing from transcription
Need to transcribe side 2 and add to transcription.
bm version
Side 1 = Rose: "Show your good will by buying one of our television sets," etc.
Chit chat before meeting.
Nate Singer, Pittsburgh Theosophical Society, driving taxicab.
"I used to have those meetings down at T.S., " Nate would say ...
File 0 - pre-lecture 21 minutes
File 0 = 20 min 57 sec.
Horrible noise before start – at about min 3
Rose talking about AIDS and dope
5:30
hypocrisy of previous generations.
So-called religious people not meeting them.
Interviewed by Gerry Sharp – arranged by John Kent
“No, I don’t believe in the Bible” – translated by very shrewd politicians.
Sodom and Gomorrah story
Two angels struck them blind.
Old Bible at home, 500 years old Latin version of story
Get your wife out of town, we’re going to destroy it.
Angelos means messenger.
Bob Martin’s interpretation, “lord” meant king.
Introduction begins at minute 14 – Bill King - TAT Foundation, not one particular dogma. Auspices of friendship. To know thyself. Farm retreat. 4 meetings per year. TAT Journal – issue 13 will be out in a few weeks. Meetings in Pittsburgh. RR founder, changed lives, heads on straight.
R: “Thanks Bill.
Talk begins at 20:57 – next file
Transcription from SearchWithin.Org
Peace of Mind Despite Success
by Richard Rose
Irwin, PA—1984
We're a small group, and we can pretty much get more accomplished if it's informal. I'm going to try to give an outline of what has been accomplished over the last ten or twelve years, and the means by which it was accomplished, and the direction and the reason for it. Then I'll stop and open the meeting up for questions.
And I want you to feel free to ask questions. What you have in any group when you give a talk are people of different interests and different levels of interest. I'm talking this stuff every day, and it gets to a point where I'm so familiar with it I just presume everybody that I talk to understands what I'm saying. And lots of times there is a percentage of people with no real rapport with what I'm saying, and their language is different.
At the last talk I gave over in Pittsburgh I sensed that there were some very sincere people there -- and I'm inclined to be rather blunt with a lot of things that I say -- and I had kind of an afterthought in the back of my head, "Be careful. Don't say certain things tonight." Because there's some people there that might be hurt. Their pet theology is everything they've got in the world, and if you give that a kick that's no good.
Now for young people -- I think young people need to be shocked out of ruts that they might get into. But when you get somebody that's sixty, seventy, eighty years of age...
I often think of my mother as a case. My mother was a very devout Catholic and had her concept of where she was going after death all mapped out for herself. And I had to stand by her bedside as she died, and I kept biting my tongue from saying anything. Because I was afraid that even consolation might betray the fact that I didn't believe what she believed about where she was going. Which is the best thing to do.
I used to give talks up at Kent, Ohio and I'd ask a few people, "What are you interested in?" People weren't interested in esoteric philosophy. That was back in the early seventies. They were interested in dynamic characters like Don Juan, a lot of them were reading Alan Watts. But they were not interested in a really deep research into the heavier Zen writers like Suzuki or the deeper philosophies put out by people like Paul Brunton or Gurdjieff. They didn't even know their names. And consequently if you start quoting Gurdjieff and three fourths of the people have never heard his name, you're wasting your time.
So we have to break every once in awhile and let somebody ask some questions, and then we'll try to draw a parallel about what that fellow said and what his contribution was. Incidentally, I think Gurdjieff made a tremendous contribution to psychology. I think he's the greatest psychologist produced up until 1950. [Gurdjieff died late in 1949 - Ed.]
I've got a little special message I'd like to bring, if I can get it across tonight, and that is the importance of what we're doing, or what I'm trying to do, let's put it that way. Again, it's difficult to get that across, because we're talking in terms of people's valuations of a common commodity, being wisdom, or achievement on a philosophic line. So anybody that ever dabbles in a philosophic direction is going to have a different idea of what he thinks is valuable.
But it goes back to 1972, when I finished writing a book. The first printing that came out in 1973 was just an 8-1/2 by 11 thing [i.e., Xeroxed, with heavier paper covers, and bound with carpet tape]. But the whole substance of this book was a direction toward clear thinking. This clearer thinking can be applied to any walk of life. And the reason we chose for the title of the flyer for this talk tonight -- Peace of Mind in Spite of Success. The reason people don't ever have success is because they don't do clear thinking.
We have a case just yesterday or the day before, where the young Kennedy boy [David] overdosed and perished, and he had all the stuff at his disposal in the line of wealth in order to create an environment. He could have created any environment he had wanted with his wealth, but somehow his thinking still wasn't clear, and he settled on something that made him miserable.
Last night on television Ted Kennedy's remark was, "I hope he is more at peace where he is now than what he was before." That he found peace, at least, someplace.
But anyhow this book (The Albigen Papers) was a story of notes I had taken -- I was fifty-five years of age when the book first came out. Now those were notes that were taken from the time I was a young man, and I had never put them into any form at all except a heap of notes. I had started to put them together and type them out, and I was going through quite a labor of sorting them and trying to keep from repeating myself, because many the notes over a period of years repeated things I had noted before.
In the meantime I got an opportunity to speak up here in Pittsburgh, at the Theosophical Society -- it was the first time I had talked on the subject. Just about that time was when the 8-1/2 by 11 copies came out.
Well, things started happening. Some boys hitchhiked over from Kent to hear me talk -- I knew the father of one of the boys -- they went back and set up talks for me at Kent State, and from then I went it seemed very rapidly from one university to another, and by 1973 I was putting the book out in a 5 by 8 [i.e., professionally printed and bound] instead of the 8-1/2 by 11 format.
A group of people formed, and at one time there were over a hundred what I considered dedicated people, who were living the life. They were using The Albigen Papers as a guide for their life, and it worked. The amazing thing about it is that you don't look for amazing things to happen. You don't go into it saying, "I'm going to put so much energy into this and I will get X amount of returns." That's not the formula.
There is a definite formula in the book. But the book is a handbook. It's a handbook for a lifestyle. And to have things happen, to put all the energy into the venture you can possibly put into it, without any egotistical idea that you should have what you want. You should have a reservation, that if that's in the cards, if that's part of the master plan, part of the engineer's blueprint, then we say "good," we'll rejoice. If it's not in the cards, we'll keep on working anyhow.
So this is a rough idea of the attitude that a person would have from the book.
The book is jammed. It's a condensed thing, because it was notes I had made, just like I'm using notes here to talk by so that I don't forget something. But it was pretty much condensed because I was doing the typing myself and my coordination wasn't too good. So I was making mistakes, and I would shorten the sentences so I could get the thing over with sometimes, I think.
In the book was a list of laws, which I had noted. Some of them you're acquainted with, some of them you may not be acquainted with. I'll mention a couple of them to show you the scope of the thing:
"The Law of Proportional Returns." Now this has to do with any type of success. I maintain that these things in the book apply -- basically they were written for philosophic reasons -- but the application of them will fit into any lifestyle or any plan of life, whether it's economic, financial, or a power struggle, even.
As I said, the procedure has to be selfless to succeed. This is one of the great blocks that stops people from really having success.
I could not get this through my head when I was younger. It was slow sinking in, I think, because when a person is in their late teens and twenties, up to the time they're about thirty, they have the conviction that they can bull through with their shoulders and create a wedge in the plan, the social pattern, and make a place for themselves, and chop out a little area in which they will get rich and get happy, and everything they want will be there, and they're going to do it all with sheer determination, will power, etcetera.
They've got a few other little things, too, like knowing the right people, and that sort of thing.
But I realized -- it just came as a sort of a hunch -- I had been doing this -- I'd been bulling my way through for many years. And I was in my late twenties when I came to the conclusion just by accident.
I didn't have too much love for humanity, but I had a lot of anger for fraudulence, for hucksters. And throughout this business of esoteric philosophy, and with religious people as well...
I mean we have the multi-millionaires on TV. And they're getting the money to pay for the TV space from little old ladies who can't afford to pay, in my estimation.
... So we've got hucksters and we've got phonies and we've got sometimes sexual deviants, where that's the only thing they can work at and at the same time get their sexual partners without too much trouble; get them inside the sphere of their religious preaching.
And I'm not exaggerating. I found these things in my own search. You're going along somewhere and you think somebody is sincere, and you find they've got an ulterior motive; they don't have a motive for truth at all. They've got a personal motive. And when you get them cornered...
For instance, I studied right above Pittsburgh here years ago. I started off when I was twelve years of age, studying to be a priest. They took them at that age, right out of grade school, the Capuchins, up here at St. Fidelis in Herman, Pennsylvania, five miles from Butler.
I was rather dismayed one time when I was hitch-hiking up from Butler. I had gone down to Butler for a walk, and one of the parents of one of the priests picked me up and gave me a ride back. He said, "You from the seminary?"
And I said, "Yes."
And he said, "My son is down there. That's a wonderful place," he said. "He'll never go hungry."
And I thought, "Jesus! Is that what it is?"
A feedbag -- just a place to eat. This is what he was looking at. Security. I read this book The Nun's Story, about a nun that became a doctor and went down to Africa and took care of sick people and that sort of thing. In her book she mentions that the convent was full of women who came from poor families who couldn't afford to feed them. They couldn't afford to keep them, so they encouraged them to join the monastery.
I think that my mother thought I was crippled and wouldn't be able to earn a living. She encouraged me to go because she thought I was weak. Which I was. But I managed to get my health built up and do a little work. (Laughs)
But out of this picture that I grew up in, I determined...I got angry. As I said, I didn't have much sympathy at first for humanity, but I had a lot of anger for these people who were parasitical. So I just had an inborn determination to make it known.
And I didn't have too good of tools. I wasn't illiterate, but at the same time I wasn't used to writing philosophy. But I made up my mind to get the point across if I had to write it longhand and Xerox it and hand it out for nothing. To get the thing across.
So, as a result of that -- that was automatically a gesture of concern for my fellowman. And I didn't even know it at the time. Because from that point on I worked for the future in which I would be able to help somebody else.
And only then did it start to pay off. It wasn't too many years after that that something happened. I had an experience which confirmed my search.
OK. We've got these laws, as I said, that I encountered, and they started manifesting themselves; and I think they're good to know, because they're applicable to almost anything, to any venture that you want to get into.
One of them is the Law of Proportional Returns -- which we're all acquainted with. In other words, if you put so many pounds of coal into a steam engine, you can predict the amount of energy you're going to get out of that steam engine. That's the Law of Proportional Returns.
If you do so much work as a salesman and keep it up -- they call it "throwing mud at the ceiling" -- some of it will stick. It will eventually pay off, and you will become successful by putting out the energy.
The next one is the Law of the Ladder. This refers to the business of helping other people. That you can only help the person on the ladder rung below you, and can only be helped by the person on the ladder rung above you. And any attempt to reach too far down results in crucifixion. And any attempt to reach up too far would not work because you would despise the man on the second rung above you. You can only understand the one right above you.
There's another law, and that is the Law of Friendship.
end of SearchWithin.Org portion
[End of transcript from SearchWithin.org. Notes only from here]
16:48 And I purposely dodged using the word love. because love is badly misinterpreted. Love today generally means liking. Or, “What can you give me that I don’t want to give you?” I maintain that this doesn’t work. nothing works, unless you think as much of your fellow man as you think of yourself. If he will lay down his life for you, you lay down your life for him. You have to be ready to pay equally for that friendship.
17:27
Then there’s another law – these don’t seem to be too harmonious with each other, but they are there And these are all factors in the final analysis of your success or failure, or the final realization of a spiritual goal, or failure. And the Law of Change – regardless of how well you understand all of the factors in the puzzle, the blueprint up ahead that you’re trying to work on, you may get these factors lined up in fifty years – I’d say maybe a half million of them – but by the time you get them lined up, there’s a thing called change.
Change possible in regard to need for education we need in ourselves.
Niagara Falls guy: all is change.
20:25
Law of equilibrium. Things balance themselves out. karma
hit anvil with anvil, anvil hits hammer
Law of extra-proportional returns
put 5 cents of energy in ad get $500 of results
has to do with human family – contracting
hire another person, the two working together
put up more sophisticated equipment, run stuff up a rope
common energy seems to develop people work better when they have some company. Better spirit also
Contractors law. Applied in te spiritual world by forming a group
if the only thing that keeps churches together is meeting once a week, if they stop meeting …
ends 24:49
File 2
File 2 = xx min [repeated short portion]
… would fall apart. But if they would get together once a week, that creates a being, number one. That creates a being. It creates a, what do they call it, a sort of brotherhood. A relation on other levels, maybe economic levels. Maybe somebody gets out of a job, maybe somebody’s house burns down. So they’re all sitting there in church on Sunday, and they get up the next day and help him build part of his house back.
Only because of this communion, interchange of ideas that they’re able to share
[break in tape at min 1]
In history all of the groups knbew this
Christ referred to the way, the truth and the life. The life is the brotherhood.
truth is the core
the life is the style, the brotherhood, encourage each other
Buddha almost synonymous buddha, dharma, sangha dharma is the way, whatever path you have to follow
sangha is the lifestyle, the brotherhood
always got these kernels; they had to, to survive
he difficulty with us is we’re not a church, but a brotherhood sangha formed developed. build at farm.
but they came ad they liked it
“Build yourself a shanty.”
Law of relativity
tremendously far reaching
all things related, all things are one
a long way down the road once you get to digging
I’m a strong individualist and advise same
realize that we are stuck with these people
billions of them
if you conceive of a happy hunting ground you’d be stuck with them their
Swedenborg
thought people on the other side wouldn’t like him
5: 00
Law of Complexity
Life is complexity, It’s cybernetics. When you get som many transistors lined up
string of ketone enzymes that washed up on shore
complexity synonymous with life
possibilities of life after death
snails and the clam think too
direct-mind science animals have a direct understanding of each other
curse of the Garden of Eden – cursed with terminology
the more you use words, the more you can confuse yourself.
if a man gets things completely out of his head, answer comes
7:30
Last one = Law of paradoxical immanence in all things relative
philosophy or anything
as soon as you are convinced that something is good, somebody will prove to you that it’s bad
knew people hooked on alcohol or drugs, committed themselves to Jesus and were cured
some people don’t have to do that
When you fall in love you forget yourself
take egocentric nature off yourself
paradox: “murder is bad” – murder isn’t bad. Birds do it all the time. This is the scenario, eating each other aall day long
slaughterhouses in every town in the country
also frying people in electric chair, also bad and good
doing it collectively to take the blame off 10:50
Rose’s book: New approach to the mind – by looking inside of it not studying about it
you’ll get an idea of what to expect in it
formulas in there that have to do with looking at the mind by using the mind
chicken gets run over by an automobile, other chickens go on as if nothing happened.
the human family does too
12:42
tremendous amount of people being murdered lately
depression only 5% of what there are
murders in Oakland, PA – nobody worries, they’re just like chickens. “That wasn’t us”
we are animals, we are conditioned reflexes, but there is an overmind
we’ve got exalted ideas about our reactions seminars to squeeze hundred thousand bucks
we have to start with that. We are animals
but we have an overmind
Mary Baker Eddy called it the Universal Mind. Paul Brunton called it the Overself.
different names given to it
gets inside himself he realizes he’s a robot
one of first talks at Theosophical Society I mentioned that. That people were largely robots. And one elderly lady got me afterwards and said, “I didn’t like your talk. he said, “I’ll have you know I’m no robot.” Of course what she was telling me was she was reacting just like a robot She didn’t bother to look into the, to try to get into the thing deep and say, “What d you mean by that?” She was saying, “I’m voting against it.”
15:27
so we had these groups in the different cities
most of the people who are in the group today were here 10 years ago
no financial involvement
TM had to pay $150
but we had to have an organization
collect money to buy nails, bookkeeping required, income taxes
I’m about running out of gas
It worked – this is science to me
that prescription is scientifically valid
if you get into it you’ll see how well it works
young people hooked on dope
“Conservation Therapy” by Jacqua
neurotransmitters depend on a certain lifestyle
21:30
it was run without any commitments, except to yourself
wealth in my life came after I was fifty years of age – wealth of the people I met
22:30
opens for questions
Q. celibacy a natural thing?
Yes. Church portrays good vs evil, nature bad
Life is hell. Body is built for reproduction
people who die slowly, sometimes you can see on their face they are witnessing immorality
we have a tremendous ability to generate neural quantum energy
direct energy away from reproduction to curiosity
you can still raise your family, and be more healthy, incidentally
we’re never sure
everybody fears death, even animals
but you can find out before you die
28:00
fellow from Florida was quibbling about the passage about Sodom and Gomorrah
I told him I wouldn’t answer him, because I didn’t want to provoke an argument that would go on for years through the mail.
28:41
go back through the Hebrew translation, Greek translation
you can abridge a lot of that
abridge it just by looking inside myself
incidentally, that isn’t a formula that you should take, until you realize that there’s something to find inside yourself.
I’m saying it. But after awhile, you plow through a few hundred books and you find out that you’re still coming up short with it, the only thing that’s worth doing, there’s noplace else to go except inside yourself.
29:38
And it will happen accidently
bookstores didn’t have esoteric books
depended on the preacher, guys at the beer joint
start to analyze your own psychology, more wrong than right
preconceptions about yourself that are phony
so you start moving those out. And as you do that, you’re on a spiritual path. You’re automatically on a spiritual path. Because what you’re going back to is the real self.
30:45
they look externally instead of internally
too many different opinions
rings true to you or it doesn’t
if you’ve got a degree you’re supposed to be listened to. People with degrees are a specialists, and not necessarily, they don’t cover a broad spectrum of the relationship of their subject or all other subjects.
31:43
best method is just looking at yourself. And you’ll start to see how your mind works, you’ll start to see the states of mind
“Hey that isn’t me. Why did I do that.”
all through my book I avoided use of the word. [God]
got behind my own mind.
33:05
I was able to see my mental operations. And when that happened, I realized – for instance, I had the experience in Seattle, I watched myself, like the man in the operation, watches the operating table, he’s out of his body
I watched the whole operation and began to see that – what amazed me was I thought I was dead
but then I realized that I wasn’t the body, I was the watcher
the view is not the viewer
transcend this planet like Moody did
you trace yourself basically back to a point of awareness.
34:39
very empty thing, like a flame that has no intelligence. It seems to be a, it shines its light on things, and it is aware of them, but it doesn’t have any articulation
back into there, whole field of power is magnified
things start to happen to the man who returns, so that he’s more capable?
35:34
Q. is that a natural motivation?
R. we’re programmed for spiritual life same as physical life
everybody wants the truth
this is all relative illusion. Thiat’s the reason incidentally that I put out the, advised people to read J.JO. van der Leeuw’s Conquest of Illusion. It was never better explained than in that little book. This is the experience: the ultimate experience is beyond the relative.
36:44
we’re very strongly programmed
also programmed for curiosity, definition, theology
Q. Programmed?
R. We’re cast like baby dolls in a dollhouse.
it wasn’t astral projection
Cascade Mountains, Seattle
out through a window.
38:40
I don’t believe that man created man. I think that this is one of the greatest fallacies we’re dealing with today. People think that man can change the world to suit himself. People think that they can condition.
they all march like ants.
there is a force, an engineering force
meeting people after death, generally their relatives
garden, mesh, vistas
people who ran into relatives, few and far between
where’s Jesus?” “Well, he’s over there. But you’ve got to go back.”
a person does leave through a point
42:00
I’ve been amazed, a lot of people would
spent their entire lives looking for Jesus, but whe they died they met Granma.
Readers Digest, October, “I Died at 10:22 AM”
convinced of his immortality
43:16
I had an experience when I was a kid, which I brought on by myself. I thought I’d hear angels, I’d see angels and the little bugles blowing, you know, somebody would come and welcome me. And they didn’t show up. And it scared the wits out of me, and I decided to fight for life then, [laughs] I wasn’t my time I guess, to take the step.
[quiet]
44:00
One of the things I think in this regard is that I find a correlation between the types of experiences that were recorded, to something I noted. I noticed in reading Moody’s book and some of the others. They spoke of – there was a distinct set, there were just certain things, limited categories of after death experiences
And I wondered why the writers never picked that up, you know, like stereotyped sets. There were people who saw their relatives, and there were people who didn’t see any relatives – they saw like mathematical lines or something …
[end of side 2]
[sh2 ends at 44:35]
File 3
00:00
and there were people who didn’t see any relatives
tunnel
gate, two big boulders in the road
parallel with this type experience and Gurdjieff’s 4 types of men
instinctive man, sensual pleasure
emotional, love
intellectual, eureka, understanding the problem
philosophic, cast all this overboard
instinctive levels didn’t record
03:15
all life forms and intellectual FORMS ARE PYRAMIDAL IN SHAPE
instinctive
emotional
intellectual
philosophic
predominance of the emotional
Augie Turak was with me
“Hey Rose, what do you think about life after death?”
“What happened to you?”
“Nothing.”
earth bound.
05:3
there is only one chance
no such thing as time
Footnotes
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