From Direct-Mind.Org
Jump to: navigation, search

Return to list of all Recordings     See all Categories    Spreadsheet: Recordings-Source-List
Class=Needs Data Template


Title 1980s-Chautauqua-Hypnosis-Demonstration
Recorded date Unknown date so far. Sometime in 1980s
Location Farm
No. tapes Two tapes: One 90 min and one 30 min
Other recorders audible? Yes
DVD number 2
Source N
No. of MP3 files 4 files: 47 min; 47 min; 31 min; 15 min
Total time 140 minutes
Transcription status In Process Eric Clark Aug 2009
Published in what book?
Published on which website?
Audio quality Good
Identifiable voices


Lots to do - consider this the first pass.

Paste into template -- as unformatted text, to fix double spacing problem

File 1

(Rose)Ah, now what we want of course is, its going to be uncomfortable for some people because, I want all the subjects in this first row of seats, these, these and these. (Man’s voice) Only the good subject can sit up there. Laughter (Rose) Right, right If there’s anyone who is convinced they can’t be hypnotized, by all means we’ll put them to sleep later. (Same man’s voice) I need to get up there! (Rose)But the danger, there is a danger of course, in the second row… Laughter (Rose) So what I want, is that, if there is anyone that doesn’t want to be hypnotized, or you think it would be difficult to hypnotize, why, I’d like for them to give up their seat, and let somebody else sit there. Now is there anybody here in the back, that’s willing to be hypnotized? Oh boy. These are the ones, these are the ones we want. (Woman)That’s what I came for, that’s what I came for. (Rose) You want to be hypnotized? (Same woman’s voice) Oh yes. (Rose) Ok, ok. Just sit still. (Laughter) (portion of audio may be missing) (Rose) Oh yeah… if we can… if there is any. I don’t… A little bit of noise don’t matter. But of course a whole lot might, you know, if we had anybody (inaudible) in the early stages, after we get started, it doesn’t matter. Now if one of you will stand up. Look at the little red dot, you’ll have to look a little closer. Ok.

Hypnosis Demonstration: Method of Passes

Close your eyes, and look at the red dot through your eyelids. Ok, I’m going to count as I make passes. I’m doing this without explanations, as soon as I get a few things done, I’ll explain myself. Ok. I’m going to pull you backwards. 1,2 Sleep! Sleep! Ordinarily, we’d have a place to… (Laughter) Ok, ok. (Sound of possibly a chair being unfolded) 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 Deep asleep. Deep. As I count, again, to 7, you go deeper asleep. Deeper asleep.


Deep asleep. You remain asleep, until I count backwards, from 7 to 1. Sleep, sleep, sleep. Your breathing gets heavier now, more rhythmical. And you go deeper asleep. Now, this is a sort of contagion here. We’ll, try this with a few other people. (Loud whistle noise) (Laughter) How ‘bout you? I’m going to move your leg. You’ll notice I’m moving your leg. Relax. Relax. Ok. Now you can move a little closer. Now I’m behind you. You have no fear of getting hurt. (inaudible) Its messy if you fall backwards. (laughter) Ok now what we do is you close your eyes, and you’ll visualize that thing, or see it like... what we want to do is keep your eyeballs turned upwards, in other words. So you close your eyes, and then. Close them now. Look up, now. There’s an inclination, as soon as someone makes a pass on your back, for you to... go to sleep and fall backwards. 1,2,3,4,5 relax, relax, you’re safe 6, there you go, 7, sound asleep. Sound asleep. (Laughter) (Sound of chairs being set up) There you are, deep asleep as I count to 7 again you go deeper asleep. Somebody place that over there. (Sound of chairs being set up) 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 deep asleep. Deep asleep. Ok. Cecilia, I’m talking to you. Can you hear me? You hear everything I say. I’m going to awaken you shortly. And when I do, I’ll use one word, as a suggestion, to enable you to go immediately to sleep again.


Now the word is parthenos. Parthenos. When you hear the word parthenos you immediately go to sleep. Now… now we’ll test. Just relax. You hear me talking about sleep. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 Now (inaudible)... put your hands like this. Now what I want you to do, is to concentrate on that. Now what you must not, remove your eyes from it. And as I count to 7, again I will count to 7, with each count, you tighten your hands. Tighter, like this. Very tight. Yeah. Now you must not look up at me, from this point forward. And when you reach the point of 7, your, these hands will be locked together. But remember, (inaudible) keep your focus upon this point, here. Ok, here we go. 1,tight, 2,3,4,5,6,7. Your hands are locked. Experiment. Now you pull, but keep your eye on the point. Pull, pull. Keep your eye on the point. Your hands get tighter as you pull. Your hands will get tighter. That’s it. That’s it. Now clasp your hands together. That’s it. Just hold them normally, you don’t have to squeeze them too tight. Ok. Now I’m going to count again. And each time that I count, you become more restful, more relaxed at the same time. And more aware of sleep. Now you don’t have to pay a lot of attention to what I’m saying. But just let me talk to you… let’s see. So, now, your eyes are closed. I want you to look up through your eyelids, at my thumb. I’m going to count to 7, look up through your eyelids at my thumb. Leave your eyes shut, they’ll be sticking shut. You look up through your eyelids at my thumb point. Ok, here we go. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7. Your eyes are stuck together. Now, again, like your hands you can test them. And you’ll see that any effort to open them, makes them tighter.


That’s alright… You know what happened? You didn’t look up, I can tell when your eyeballs are rolled up, the heavy part of your eyeball will be pointed upwards. You was looking straight ahead. (Woman’s voice) I thought I was looking up. (Rose) No. (Same woman’s voice) I was thinking where your thumb was. (Rose) Yeah, yeah, ok. Now let’s start here. (Same woman’s voice) Ok. (Rose) Each time we do this, it will be easier. It will even be easier and more complete. Ok, keep your eye on this. Don’t let... the thing is to be able to concentrate on one point. (Same woman’s voice) Can I ask you something first? (Rose) Sure. (Same woman’s voice) You tell me that my eyelids are stuck shut. And if I want to open them, am I going to be uncomfortable, if I can’t get them open? (Rose) I think you’re aware of the fact, that I’m here, for some reason. I’m doing something. If you have fear, you’re going to be (inaudible)

Hypnosis Demonstration: Susceptibility Test

Now of course what you can do here, if you all want to do this? This is a, these are little ways you can test to see people’s susceptibility. Excuse me. (inaudible) You see, you’re supposed to visualize that between the end of the wire. The wire going through your hands, binding your hands together. You see the wire comes through here, like, its a visualization, you visualize the wire going through there, and then by foc-, holding your eye on that point… (inaudible) (laughter) Ok, now. Let’s, I’m going to tell you in advance. If you, this is not something that can be done very much against your will. If you are afraid, you’re going to, your head’s going to be watching your own thoughts, as Frank was talking about. You are going to say, well, can I do this and be aware of it, or, you know, can I outwit this man, and that’s very easy to do, all you have to do, is have a reservation, so, which is alright too. Now, I want all of you to follow the same instructions, tighten your hands up, look at that point, and when I get to 7, we’ll test it.


But the main thing is, you’re supposed to tighten it, and if you follow the instructions properly, your hands will not come apart. The thing is, there is a mental reservation or something, but if you do exactly as you’re told, they’ll not come apart. Ok, here we go. Each count tighten a little tighter. 1,tighter 2,3,4,5,6,7 Your hands are locked. Key your eye on the point, and test. Pull, pull, pull. The more you pull, the tighter they get. The more you pull, the tighter they get. The more you pull, the tighter they get. Ok. They’ll be locked. They’ll be locked. More strongly. They’ll tighten up on you. They’ll tighten up on you. Ok, now your hands are locked. Ok, we start again. Leave your hands locked. Leave your hands locked. They’ll stay locked until I release them now. And now, what we have here, we have a group of people who are, let’s say, potential hypnotic subjects, see.

Hypnosis Demonstration: Induction through Counting

Ok. Ok. Now, you, look up through your eyelids at my thumb. Roll your eyes back. That’s it. Look up at my thumb. Here again, I’ll count up to 7, and when I reach 7, your eyes will be locked. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7. Your eyes are stuck together. Stickier all the time. Any effort that you make to open them, makes them stickier. There they go. Now you can test them. When you go to open your eyes you will notice they just don’t want to come open, that’s all. They stay shut. There you go. And your eyes are locked shut. Locked shut. And they will remain shut. Now you are peacefully aware of yourself. Everything is peaceful and serene. And you just relax there, and go to sleep if you wish. We relax and go to sleep. Same thing here. Ok, look through your eyelids at my thumb, that’s it, it’s a little difficult at first. Close your eyes, look up there at the thumb. Ok, there we go. Now the eyelids are slipping down, they’ll start to stick together. And I count to 7. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7. Now the eyes are locked. Keep looking at my thumb, and you’ll notice they’re stuck. Their eyes are stuck, their eyes are stuck and any effort makes them stuck that much more. See? Ok, I count again. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 Sleep is a matter of counting. That’s all. You just count. You’re going to sleep. You’re going to sleep. Ok, now. (inaudible) Great. Ok ,you do the same, look up here. (inaudible) Ok, there you go. Ok, I’m going to count to 7.


When I get to 7, your eyelids will be stuck together. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 Your eyes are stuck together. Your eyes are stuck together. There you go. (inaudible)..rest. Your eyes will be glued, glued together. You hear me talking. But you’ll rest, because (inaudible) sleep(inaudible)… I’m going to count once more to 7. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 Your head will get heavier. You rest more completely, if your head just falls forward. Then you go deep sleep. You go deep asleep. You go deep asleep. And I’m talking now to Max, Max I’m going to count to 7, now when I reach 7, when I reach 7, your mind will be closed in sleep the same as your eyes are closed. And you will go deep asleep. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 Sleep. And your head is heavy and your breathing gets regular, and your breathing gets regular. Ok, ok. Look up through your eyelids. Look up through your eyelids at the thumb. I’m talking now to, I don’t know whom, hmm? Rich. Rich? Ok, Rich. I’m talking to Rich. So the rest of you’ll know, that I am talking to Rich. The ones that hear my voice. Ok, look up through your eyelids, and I’ll count to 7, and you’ll be sound asleep. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 Your eyes are stuck together, you can test them, and you’ll find they’re glued. Yes, they stick together, the more you try to open them, the more they stick. And pretty soon they relax, and your eyes are locked in sleep. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7. Everyone is going to sleep. Sleep, sleep, sleep. Deeper, and deeper asleep. Deeper asleep. Sleep, sleep. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 I’m talking to Marion now, Marion’s head will get heavy, and she will go deeper asleep. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 Your breathing gets heavier, and even peaceful and easy.(inaudible) Sleep, sleep. Look up through your eyelids, there you go.Ok 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 Your eyes are stuck together, locked in sleep. I’m talking to Lou now.


Lou, your eyes are locked. And you are sound asleep. You‘re relaxed, your head is heavy. Peacefully asleep. Peacefully asleep. I count again, the head gets heavy, you go deeper asleep. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 Ok. Mike, this is Mike. I’m going to talk to Mike. I’m going to count to 7, look up through your eyelids at my thumb, that’s it, I’m going to count to 7 and your eyes will be to be locked shut. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 You can test it and you’ll see that your eyes are glued. Your eyes are glued shut. Ok, I count again, I’m going to count again, and your mind will be locked in sleep. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7. And your mind is locked in sleep. And you’re at peace, you’re at peace. Ok, ok now you hear me talking to different people, you people that are asleep. You’ll hear me, I’ll call you by name, if I address you directly. And… Look up through your eyelids at my thumb. Ok, I’m going to count to 7, when I reach 7, your eyes will be stuck together. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 Your eyes are shut. You can test them, and you’ll see that they are sticky, Vicki, Vicki. And you are deep asleep, and when I count to 7 you’ll go deeper asleep. Your head will get heavy. Your breathing will get heavy. And you go deeper asleep, deeper asleep. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 Sound asleep, deep asleep, deep asleep. Ok. Norma? Norma? Ok. That’s it, you look up through your eyelids at my thumb. I’ll count to 7. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 Your eyes are locked, you can attempt to open them, and you’ll see that they are sticky. Sticky. Yeah, just like that. Ok, ok, they are sealed shut. And you are going away. I’ll count to 7 again, when I reach 7 you’ll be sound asleep.


1,2,3,4,5,6,7. Your head will get heavy, your breathing will get heavy, you will be sound asleep. Ok, now anybody in the audience can go to sleep, if you wish. All you have to do is listen. See. We can go right from one to one, and picking the more susceptible ones, and pretty soon we could all be asleep, if we wish. We don’t have the time, see. Ok, now I’m going to talk in general here. And I said, the people that are asleep, the people that are asleep.

Hypnosis Demonstration: Post-Hypnotic Suggestion

I’m going to talk to Pat now, Pat (inaudible) Ok, look up through your eyelids Pat. I’m going to count to 7. And seal your eyes shut. Look at my thumb. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7. Now you can test your eyes, you’ll find that they are sticky. Ok, your eyes are sealed shut, I’ll count to 7. You’ll be deep asleep, and your head will fall forward on your chest. And your breathing will get heavy. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 Ok, now. To Mike, and to Rich, and to Max, who can hear me now, and to Lou, and to Ed. These are the boys. When I use the word “bosaloyo”, you will be able to go immediately to sleep. That’s all that’s necessary, the word “bosaloyo”, but I have to say it. When I use the word “bosaloyo”, anybody’s that greek here might know what that means. To the girls, that is, to Pat, to Marian, what is your name? Anna Mae, Anna Mae, Norma, Lynn, I think I’ve got them all. Cary, Cecilia the word is parthenos. Also greek, see, so its not too easy to copy. Ok, When I use these words, that you will immediately go to sleep. Now, to facilitate this, we’re going to test it also, I’m going to waken the most of you up, all that want to wake up. And the way I wake you up, is to count backwards from 7 to 1. And when I reach 1, and clap my hands, you will all be awake. 7,6,5,4,3,2,(clap) 1


Hypnosis Demonstration: Explanations

Now, for explanations. The majority of you I presume to remember the biggest part because you notice, I didn’t say anything. The hypnotist generally says, you’ll remember nothing. I don’t care if you remember or not, but I mean that, you give tests to people, who show the (inaudible) sleep. And I’ll start this off, since this is a truth organization. Cary, you can go over there and sit down. Cary, comes with the show. Cary works, you know, she works the kitchen up there. But Cary is a very good subject. Now what you saw was not phony. But I picked somebody that is, I’m sure will go to sleep very quickly. This expedites the rest of it. Because 90% of hypnosis is conflicts, belief, so consequently when you see how easy it is, most hypnotists don’t tell this, they don’t say this party was trained beforehand, or I’ve worked with this party beforehand. But I believe that one of the reasons I’m here, is not to, not such much to put on a show, as to also answer some questions and show what I’ve learned and what you can learn through hypnosis as well. So, wonder what I did with my notes. There’s a number of things, there’s a number of things that we do, there’s a number of things that we do with hypnosis, and that I think are valuable. And we sometimes we do, we work this in the process, one of them is, developing higher degrees of telepathy. Developing certain ESP qualities, being able to see things that you couldn’t ordinarily see. We’re going to have later on, some demonstrations or explanations for people interested in knowing how to deliver methods of hypnosis. Now this method here is, a combination of fixation and what we call a mesmeric pass. And I would like to, I would like to, let me see if can…


I’m trying to find ones that are more susceptible. (Woman’s voice) How can you tell? (Rose) Oh sure, sure. (Woman’s voice) How? (Rose) I don’t know. (laughter) (Rose) Yeah. (Man’s voice) I noticed in your hypnosis there, you used a lot of visual suggestions. I am blind. How does that work with, how would that work with a blind person? (Rose) I don’t think it would work, I don’t know, I’ve not worked with a blind person, but it would be interesting, it would be interesting to… see, there is another method, there’s still another method, which we may get into, when the people and the conditions are right. And that is, direct hypnosis. And it would be interesting to see, if a person who couldn’t see, could do it. For instance, that’s what I was looking around for, for someone, and I hadn’t paid that much attention to the individual people, here, who I’ve noticed…Yes- (Question from woman) (Rose) That’s alright, go. (laughter) There’s a method that you’ve probably heard about, the Tibetans have it, and quite a few of the gurus who come over here from Indian places. This is used directly, to make a show and to cause somebody to collapse. They call it called zapping, that’s the term for it. Common term for it. But there’s an instant method of hypnosis that doesn’t require pointing or objects or anything. And we’ve been able to do a little of it, if the conditions are right, as I said the people and the conditions have to be right to do it. And I think this lady here. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 Your head gets heavy, your head gets heavy, your head gets heavy, you go deeper asleep. Now I did this deliberately, because I didn’t want to use the post-hypnotic work that I gave, to show that it isn’t necessary, once a person is susceptible. Yes-


(Woman’s voice) Are women more susceptible? (Rose) On the average, yes. This gets into psychology, I know that we’ve got psychologists here. I maintain that the woman doesn’t have the same mind that a man has. She is much more sensitive, but she’s unable to hold as long as a man does. She’s unable to hold the direction, she picks up very quickly, we’ll take care of that story and progress later, I hope. (Woman’s voice) (Inaudible) it does have a visual sense, the person that’s going under, they can’t see in the dark, can they? (Rose) They have, at one time, that’s all they used. (Woman’s voice) But what you did with these people up here, you were doing it down and back of them where they couldn’t see. So wouldn’t that work with a blind person also? (Rose) It could, it could, yes. But there’s a number of things that, there’s a number of things that work. I… let’s see, how bout you… do you think you’re susceptible? You look like you are. (Woman’s voice) I have no idea. (Rose) Ok, how about you standing up there? You look like you haven’t been hypnotized, see. Now these are.. I’m just demonstrating. See, the idea, the point of this is to tire your eyes, that’s all. There’s nothing magical about it. And it’s a little bit low, it’s a little bit low, I’d like for you to move up just an inch or two. That’s it. Ok, now what I want you to do, is close your eyes and look up through there.

Hypnosis Demonstration: Canoe Induction

And I’m going to talk to you about being in a canoe, in a canoe that moves from side to side as the waves roll it. And now pretty soon, you’ll feel yourself trying to stabilize that, as the canoe moves from side to side. You’ll feel yourself opposing the force. The canoe is rocking, its rocking like a cradle, see. The inclination, is to lie down. The inclination is to lie down and go to sleep. You know, and forget about the… just let the peaceful waters tap the side of the canoe and as you relax, you relax against trying to stabilize, you’ll fight it awhile, you’ll fight it awhile, and you’ll see that its easier just to relax. Ok, so I’m going to talk to you about relaxing, and whatever you feel, the inclination to lay down in this canoe, as though it were a cradle, just relax, and go deep asleep. Just go deep asleep. And we’ll go from 1 to 7. And you’ll go right back in this canoe. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 And you’re deep asleep. You’re deep asleep. Deep asleep. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 Deep asleep. I’m going to set you down, rather easily.


1,2,3,4,5,6,7 You’re deep asleep. (Rose, inaudible) (Laughter) Elizabeth... Elizabeth is sound asleep. Now, Elizabeth, you hear me talking to you. Now, I’ll be talking for quite awhile, and you’ll be sleeping for quite awhile. And when you waken, you’ll remember only that you’ve been asleep. All memories are troublesome, and will pass away. You’ll just have a sleep without interruption, without bother, you’ll remember only the word parthenos, remember only the word parthenos. To have a complete peace, we’ll forget everything, we’ll forget everything. Ok, so I’m going to count to 7, so you’ll go deep into sleep, into a forgetful sleep. And you’ll be oblivious of everything and you’ll be peacefully asleep. You’ll be peacefully asleep, and when I use the word parthenos, you’ll awaken, refreshed. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 Deeper asleep, deeper asleep. Now, Elizabeth I put to sleep, with a different method. See, in other words, there were no passes, no object was there, but it was uncertainty. Uncertainty and belief, see… I did this, see, I’m the canoe (laughter) Ok.

Hypnosis Demonstration: Arm Levitation, a method of testing

Now, Elizabeth, I’m going to talk to your right arm. And again, we’ll count. I’ll just talk to your right arm. And as I talk, your arm will rise, light like a feather. And the more I count, the higher it will go, until its straight up in the air. You’ll feel, I’m touching your right arm now, I’m touching your right arm now, it remains limp, and you’ll feel a pressure right here, in the palm of your hand. And that will lift your hand up in the air. Ok, here we go. We’re going to bring your right arm up. 1, lighter,2,3,4,5,6,lighter and lighter, and you allow it to float right up in the air, and you allow it to float 7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20 it floats right on up, it the higher it floats, the easier it stays. 21,22,23,24,25,26, and your arm is straight up in the air, resting there of its own.


Now, what I’m going to do, now, I’m going to waken you, by the use of the word parth… well, I’d better be quiet a minute, (laughs), I’ll waken you, but before I waken you, I’d like you to remember that the right arm I will detach. The right arm is mine, the rest you can have. Momentarily, I will be in charge of the right arm, and it will feel just as though you don’t have a right arm. So that, I’m going to count backwards from 7 to 1, and I’ll waken all of you but the right arm. The right arm will remain asleep, and you will remember only, that you have been in a sound sleep, and you’ll remember the word parthenos. Ok, I’ll count backwards 7 to 1. 7,6,5,4,3,2, (sound of hands slapped together) 1. Elizabeth is wide awake. We hope. (laughter) How do you feel? (laughter) Now this is a method, (laughter) this is a method of testing. This is a method of testing. A lot of people say, oh well, they’re faking it. Or that they are trying to embarrass these little guys. But this is a method of testing, so that they will know, beyond a shadow of a… (woman’s voice) Can we put this down? Huh? (laughter) What are you pointing at? (Woman’s voice) Can I take this down? Does it hurt? (woman’s voice) Um.. I don’t think so, does it? (woman’s voice) Well… What does it feel like? (woman’s voice) Feels like it’s a shelf up there. (laughter) (Rose) Ok, now what I do do, I have to waken, its asleep, see, I have to waken up the arm. And I do that, I count backwards from 7 to 1. (woman’s voice) How long is my circulation… (Rose) You can keep it up there for days, it won’t hurt… (laughter) We’re going to waken your arm now, 7,6,5,4,3,2 (sound of hands slapped together) 1. Ok. (laughter) Where were you sitting, were you sitting over here? (Woman’s voice) No, I was… Ok. (laughter) Yes- (Woman’s voice) You said when you put people to sleep you use uncertainty and belief. What do you mean by uncertainty? (Rose) Oh, well the whole thing is, that they’re not certain they’re awake. You have to create an uncertain condition. The uncertain condition sometimes is just me, see. (Woman’s voice) Its not. But you can have, if you’ve got a conviction, I see here that you are a very positive person. You take pride in being awake. So I can tell that by your face. So I wouldn’t… I’d be afraid to hypnotize you, you’d be trying to prove that… or else analyze as you go along.


If someone hypnotized you, you’d be trying to make notes as you went, to see what happened. (Woman’s voice) So you would try to put me in an uncertain state? (Rose) Right. Everybody. Everybody has to be put in an uncertain state, see. Now that can happen quicker than what you think, see. (inaudible) 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 sleep, sleep, sleep. Head falls forward, you go deeper asleep. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 you go deeper asleep, deep asleep. Going deep asleep. Ok, rest peacefully, rest peacefully, you go deeper asleep. Ok. Now, I’m going to, I’m going to waken you, because, we’ll put you to sleep later if you want to try (inaudible) So Nancy, I’m going to count backwards from 7 to 1, and I’ll waken you. 7,6,5,4,3,2 (sound of hands clapped together) 1. And you’re awake. Now of course you see what I’m doing, the purpose of this is to show that you don’t have to have fixation, you don’t have to have fixation, and after awhile all you have to do, I’ve been in a place where there’d be especially younger people, you can just point, and they’ll go right to sleep, that’s all. One point and they’ll go to sleep. And…thought you were pointing for a minute. (laughter) Yeah- (Man’s voice) You said younger people, in this group, is this a classroom situation, or… (Rose) High school, second, last two years of high school and college, are ideal environments. Yeah- (Man’ voice) Why is college? Huh? (Man’s voice) You say… It’s the age, that’s all. It’s the age. And the belief… most foolish people on earth go to college. (laughter) I said the most foolish people on earth go to college. They’re uncertain, they don’t think they can make it, unless they go in there and… we’ll take up that part later. (laughter) But this is true. You’ve got a generation of believers in college. And its much harder, a person that say at 18 goes into the mill and does work, its going to be much harder to hypnotize him, than a person that believes everything he’s told. And we have an educational system as such that requires belief in it, same in the army. Its easier that way. (laughter) So… yes


(Man’s voice) When Elizabeth asked you if she could put her arm down, could she put it down, without… (Rose) I… (Elizabeth) I was afraid to try, I was going to ask first. (Rose) Yeah...well, you’ll see that the thing is, there’s a, the state of the mind at the time is one of “I’m sure I could do this if I really tried, but I don’t want to do it” Right? (Elizabeth) I wanted to, but I wasn’t sure I should. (Rose) When someone is going to go to sleep, this is what goes through their heads: “I’ll go along with this. Because I can open my eyes if I really wanted to.” Almost everybody thinks that. I can open them. But they’ll give a half-hearted try, and its much easier just to, just to let it go. Then after, you get in so deep, then its too late, you can’t open them. (laughter) (Man’s voice) Am I fully awake, when I’m on hold like this? (Rose) No, no. Nobody, nobody is fully awake that has a post-hypnotic suggestion. (laughter) Yes… yes-

(Woman’s voice) (inaudible)

Well, I only said it when they were asleep. (Woman’s voice) No, you said it twice (inaudible) Elizabeth. Oh, ok, ok I don’t know why. (inaudible) That should wake her up. (laughter) Now let’s see, I’ll tell you, we’re going to try an experiment. Who has the… who has the papers here. Is that a pen? We’re going to check, we’ll check the magic word. The magic word. (inaudible) work (inaudible) We start here. Do you feel rested, quiet? (Woman’s voice) I just feel so heavy. Heavy? Good, good, now, now we’re talking. (laughter) (inaudible) (Woman’s voice) I know I won’t get it. No, I don’t mean that. That means that you are in the right mood, in the right mood.

Hypnosis Demonstration: Use of Post-Hypnotic Suggestion

We’re going to go to sleep now, with the word parthenos. When you hear the word parthenos, your eyes will close, and you will go deep asleep. Parthenos. Cecilia is asleep. Parthenos, parthenos. Pat, Pat is asleep. Parthenos, parthenos, parthenos, your eyes are heavy.


Parthenos. I’ve got another one over here. (inaudible) Elizabeth, parthenos. Anna Mae, parthenos. Mary, parthenos. Parthenos. You’re deep asleep. Parthenos. Parthenos. Parthenos. Sleep, sleep, sleep, sleep, sleep, sleep, sleep. Ok, ok, now. I have the feeling, I have the belief, because I have the feeling, that the female mind is much superior to the male mind. Although if they want me to convince them of that, it will take me a long time.


We’re going… (Man’s voice) Verbal suggestion. (Rose) Right, right, be quiet. (laughter) I’m going to talk to all of you girls. Lyn, Cecilia, Cecilia, Norma, Pat, Anna Mae, Marion, Nancy. Nancy. Ok. Now, you heard what I said. That the mind has a tremendous potential, the female mind particularly has a tremendous potential, because its like a radio, it has more sensitive antennae, more sensitive nerve endings. Geared by nature, to instantly evaluate a situation and protect the young, etc. Now 47.12

End of 1_Chautauqua_Hypnosis_Demonstration.mp3

File 2

45 minutes.

part 2 of 4 by Eric Clark


…give you the ability when you wake up, to perceive, much more clearly without any outside, let’s say irritations, so that you will come up with more accurate intuitional answers. Now…in other words without hesitation when you awaken we will put a problem to you, and you will come up with an intuitional answer. Which I am sure will be far superior to anything anybody would hear when they’re conscious. Now what we are going to see some of the fruits of hypnosis, possibly. Ok. Now remember what I’m telling you. When you awaken, I’m going to awaken you, and when you awaken, you will remember only, that you’ve had a wonderful sleep, you will remember that you’ve been peaceful, and that you are going to be unusually intuitive. Ok. I’m going to count, after you’ve had this long sleep, backwards from 7 to 1.

7,6,5,4,3,2,1 “sound of hands clapped together” And you are awake. Awake. Oh, now, ok. I want to check to see if everybody was awake. Ok, now. Let’s have… you are all brain trust people now, see. And we are going to ask questions, and we’re going to get, just for the heck of it, we’re going to get some answers. Starting, we’ll start here and go this way, right back to Nancy. What do you think about the depression? Are we going to have a depression?

Q. Hmm…there’s a realistic possibility we will.

R. What do you think?

Q. I think there are a lot of indications that point to that. I’ve read several books that predict what is going on now.

Q. I think depression is inevitable; it’s the only way to stop inflation.


Q. Only if we think we are.

Q. I can’t believe the leaders of our country let us have another one.

R. Marion? No depression? No depression.

Q. Something more catastrophic, something more catastrophic. R. Now you, I want you to write all those down. See if you can keep up with it. Ok, now, I have no preparation here, so if anybody wants a question, if anybody wants to ask a question, like “which would, if we have a war, will it be Russia or China?” Q. It will be between Russia and China. R. We, we.

Q. Oh, we.

R. Who will we have a war with?

Q. I think Russia.

Q. Russia

Q. Russia

Q. Russia

R. Don’t let yourself be swayed. I mean, I just want you to appeal within yourself. See, I’ll tell you why I am doing this. You see, at one time, I ran across this in, oh, way back in 1930 or so. And it was in the Esquire magazine. And it amazed me at the time. In the center of the page, they have a little block, sometimes, in some magazines it’s a short piece of poetry. And this was a little account of a hypnotic demonstration that the editor or someone had written, and it said we had a strange little experiment in hypnosis. And we had a subject who was unusually psychic. And so we put a few questions to her, about the economy or the future. And so we’ll ask this question, too, that was asked. Would we have a war, and what would the price of potatoes go to?

And the amazing thing was, I can’t remember, but they did say, they did predict the war, which turned out to be world war two, and they predicted the price of potatoes in a special year, would go to 75 cents a bushel I think it was, or 75 cents a peck. Anyhow both these things have happened. I clipped this thing out, just ‘cause, you might say foolishness, I don’t even know who the hypnotist was, or who the parties that were being hypnotized. But under hypnosis, certain powers are brought out. And if you have time, we don’t have the time today to go in to all this, but tomorrow we’ll try to get in to whatever anybody wants to fool with. There should be people present, who would be, hypnosis would improve their psychic ability. I knew a hypnotist once who hypnotized his niece, and invariably, without maybe let’s say once out of a hundred, there could be an error of 1 in a hundred, that’s all, she would read the headlines on tomorrow’s paper. I often wonder if he can get to the treasury report, you know. “laughter” “inaudible” But these things were, another thing was this business of regression.


It takes awhile, you can’t do it, and we’ll do some of it, see. But this business of taking the person back, in recall. You can recall a tremendous lot that under hypnosis, that you can’t recall normally. I’ll show this here, before we’re through today. And…what were you going to ask?

Q. Is it going to rain anymore this weekend? “laughter”

R. Yeah well, incidentally you’ll be able to get out of here, if anybody tries to move their car before an hour or so. Soon as Nora’s son will come over here, we’ll ravel that up. Ok, just for the fun of it, that’s close.

Q. Ask her if it’s going to rain anymore for the weekend.

R. What’s the situation on rain do you think…rain for the weekend? Anymore? What do you think?

Q. No.

R. Marion? No rain? I think I’ve got them all named. How about you? Did you speak?

Q. No, I have no idea.

R. No idea?

Q. You picked that up off of her.

R. Who did? Q. Whether it was going to rain or not. Q. No, I gave it to him. Because I just asked her, I said, ask Mr. Rose, ask him if it’s going to rain tomorrow. R. Well she did though. So she, she’s the receiver, she asked me. It bounced off that sign there, I think. “laughter” Q. That’s what we’ve got that sign for. R. Oh, what else is there. Yes-

Past Life Regression

Q. Do you ever take people in regression, before birth?

R. Well, I’ve never got back that far. I worked with it in Steubenville, for oh, a couple of years. And this is been how long Friday Murphy has been in print. When Friday Murphy first came out, we had, there was a Steubenville Psychic Society, that had been in existence for 20 years before I got up there. In fact they were all dissembled and I brought them back together and said let’s do a little bit more checking on these matters. And they got into, a lot of it becomes sort of subliminal or intangible, a lot of stuff you get… But I had one fellow who would go right in, he’s still living, he must be 85 years of age or so, and he would go into what he felt was his previous incarnations…or what. He believed that, and he would lose his consciousness, and he would talk in a different dialect. And once, evidently he got drowned at sea in one of them. And he would go through this, shouting, and calling out orders and all this sort of thing and then he would, occasionally, another voice, a doctor... incidentally I have made notes of this, and I ran into a lot of ridicule from the family doctor,


‘cause it impressed me so much I thought I would pass it on to him. And this is as I said, I was 35, 40 years of age, about 25 years ago or so. We put him under hypnosis, and he went back in, an Austrian doctor, all doctors are Austrian, see, you know, and they’re either German or Austrian. All the great financiers were scotch. But this Austrian doctor in his Germanic dialect tells us that the cure for cancer is about to be discovered and would be discovered simultaneously in two different places. And one of those discoverers would be a woman, working with microscopes or whatever.

He said that, it was at the time, it was, the basic cause with cancer was histostasis. And it was, he linked, I will explain a little of this after we get through with this, that the germ that was responsible, was cytomonas carcinogens. Now in Latin, this means nothing, you know. But as cytomonas means one cell, you know, one cell “inaudible” and carcinogens means cancer-bearing. But there was, at that time there was no knowledge whatsoever. They had no, whatever they discovered this virus with, it had not yet been discovered, and when it was discovered, I kind of, was amazed, I thought maybe this fellow had tapped something. But I also, noticed myself, a lot of people who have cancer, if they’re active, can fight it off for five years longer than the doctors’ prediction of their death. Which means, histostasis means a static condition of the tissue, that if you lay down, you will die quicker.

The person, who went into this trance, was a bacteriologist. He was a chemist, and he specialized in bacteriology. So he had the terms at his fingertips long before he was hypnotized. So the whole thing’s in jeopardy because of that, you know. Yet regardless I knew all this and I was still somewhat amazed, see. I was still somewhat amazed that it came out. And there’s been nothing really produced on cancer since then, that shows that it isn’t anything but a filterable virus, or that it isn’t even perhaps a mental condition. It could be, that if we, the mind gets it in time, or the mind accepts a certain fact in time, it might, let’s say, slow it down. It might be able to slow it down. Now, let’s see. There was something else I wanted to do here.


Hypnosis Demo: Fire on a Merchant Vessel

Rich… is Rich here? Ok… Let’s see if I can get Max and him together. Bazaloyo, bazaloyo, bazaloyo. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 deep asleep, deep, deep asleep. Talking to Max, deep asleep, deep asleep. Ok, you’re going sound asleep. When you’re sitting there, you’re sitting there and you can, you can hear me talking to you, but the same time, you can remember what we talked about before. And, I was, when I was talking to the girls, when I was talking to the girls…

Q. We’re over 21.

R. I don’t believe it. “laughter”

You all look young to me. We talked of a canoe, see. And if you were watching, you noticed that there was a certain motion in this canoe. Now, we’re going to expand on this idea a bit, and instead of you being in a canoe, you will have the sensation of being in a boat. A large boat. This would be a merchant vessel. This would be a merchant vessel on the ocean. And… you’re asleep. You’re asleep. In the hold, you hear me talking to you, but you are still asleep in the hold, and we’re miles from the shore. Many miles from the shore. And while you’re sleeping, something seems to tell you, something seems to tell you, that there’s a fire onboard the ship, there’s a fire onboard the ship. Yes, there’s a fire onboard the ship. Now, there’s an urgency, anybody onboard the ship, asleep or not, there’s an urgency to waken. And this is up to you; you have to warn the rest of the people on the ship, you have to let them know. And down inside of you is going to develop a tremendous urge to waken yourself up. A tremendous urge to waken yourself up.


And when you waken, as soon as you waken, you will be a tremendous urge to let as many people, you will shout so that everyone onboard the ship will hear you. You will shout to awaken, I don’t know what you shout, what do you shout? “Man…ship’s on fire?” Whatever it is, it’s up to you. You have to waken yourself up. No matter how hard it seems, you have to waken yourself up, but maybe I can help you. But I can’t shout for you. You’ll have to warn the crew. When I count backwards from 7 to 1, we’ll try to waken you up. The rest is up to you.

7,6,5,4,3,2 “claps hands together” 1

Q. Fire. “laughter” The funniest part… “inaudible” “laughter”

Q. Poor crew, they all burned up.

R. I’ve had ‘em jump right up in the chair.

Q. Pardon me a minute; I wanted to ask a question in this experiment that you just conducted.

R. Yes-

Q. Supposing an individual had a tremendous fear of fire.

R. Yes.

Q. Would that cause hysteria?

R. Yes. “laughter”

Q. What would you do, to prevent it.

R. I would just tell him that everything was under control. Papa’s here. “laughter”

R. They get that way. They get that way.

Um, yes-

Q. Don’t you think, if you ask him, why didn’t you holler, you felt like you had to holler, didn’t you, but yet you felt foolish.

Q. Yeah, I felt an impulse, but I did seem kind of silly. “laughter”

Q. That’s why he was able to suppress it, as much as he is. Otherwise, he would have, he would just jumped up on the roof, and hollered.

R. Right, I have some of them leap up and shout, and then look around, and are surprised to find they’re not onboard a ship, and… “laughter”

But he kind of sensed, he kind of picked up a little bit ahead of time.

Hypnosis Demo: David Gold is invisible

Now, let’s see. Ok, ok. Let’s try to get to you, now.



Bazaloyo, bazaloyo. Eyes closed. Bazaloyo. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7. Deep asleep. Count again, deeper asleep. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7. Your head gets heavy. You hear me talking to you about sleep? Yes. Everything else passes away. Deep asleep. Bazaloyo, bazaloyo, deep asleep. Deep asleep. Deep asleep. Bazaloyo. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7. This happens a lot. Ok.”microphone more distant”

R. “inaudible” “laughter”

Bazaloyo, bazaloyo, eyelids heavy. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7, sleep,sleep,sleep. Your head gets heavy and your breathing gets rhythmical. And you go to sleep. Deeper asleep. Now we have, through the use of the word bazaloyo three men asleep, Mike, Rich, and Max. Now you’re going deeper into sleep. As I talk, the longer I talk, the deeper into sleep you will go. And we could have a few more, but that’s all right. I’m going to count again, I want to put you in a profound state of sleep, so that you’ll be completely rested. Completely rested, so completely rested that you’ll just be like a night’s sleep, and you’ll have forgotten all except a peaceful sleep. You will all, when you waken, remember only a peaceful sleep. Remember only a peaceful sleep. As you go deeper and deeper into sleep. Ok. Now, this is very simple, this is a very simple operation. You go to sleep, and I wake you up, as you’ve noticed before.


As you’ve noticed before. You hear only the sound of my voice. Everything is so quiet, we remove all sounds, so that only the sound of my voice comes to your ears. And by removing all sights, why, with your eyes closed, nothing disturbs you through your eyes. So remain asleep, until I count backwards again from 7 to 1. And I’ll go around to each of you and speak to you, and waken you at the necessary time. Now all we’re doing this time, is just putting you asleep, and waking you up. And there has been no change in this environment, when you wake up, things will be exactly as they were. Things will be exactly as they were. There is one exception. One exception. And that will be, of course, you will notice when you wake up, that David Gold, the moderator, had to leave. Everyone else is here, exactly as they were sitting, except David Gold. You will notice that David Gold is missing. Ok. Now, I’m going to count backwards from 7 to 1, and I’ll start with Mike. Mike, 7,6,5,4,3,2 “claps hands together” 1. Awake. Rich, 7,6,5,4,3,2 “claps hands together” 1. Awake. And Max, 7,6,5,4,3,2 “claps hands together” 1. And you’re wide awake.

Ok. Now see, this is where telepathy comes in handy. I’ll explain to you later. Max, I want you and Mike to keep your eye on this. You tell me what happens.

Q. A book is flying across the room? “laughter”

R. He’s laughing.


We’ll try it again. Mike, tell me what happens with that book? “laughs”

Q. Dave almost missed it.

R. Hmm?

Q. Dave almost missed it.

R. Yeah. “laughs” Ok. How ‘bout you?

Q. Somebody’s missing. “laughter” Somebody.

R. Yeah, right, right, that’s possibly true. Well for instance, we’ll try a little bit of levitation. Maybe you can pick up levitation better. I’ll hold this chair up in the air and it should with the proper incantation, remain up there, see? Maybe I can get it to fly over this way. Right now, tell me something else… do you think we could do it with this chair?

Q. “laughs” No.

R. Why not?

Q. I see him over there.

R. Huh?

Q. He’s there.

R. Who’s he?

Q. David.

R. Yeah…Now, look, when did he first appear?

Q. I just noticed him. “laughter”

R. Now you see, what happened, I think he saw him immediately. That’s the reason I put three people up. He saw him just as soon as he sat down. It wasn’t effective on him. In other words, nothing’s a hundred percent. He knew what was happening, but he didn’t know just exactly what was going on, because he’d seen it before. See this is the trouble with people seeing a hypnotic experiment before, the mind picks up on it, you know. Now Max had not seen it before, so it was slower registering. “laughter” We used to “inaudible” a typewriter, you know “laughter” and I remember one time, I was hypnotizing, I had a store down there, and I had an iron pole in the middle of the store, holding up the ceiling, there was a sign hanging on it “Chocolate Pop”, they used to sell pop, in little chocolate bottles. That’s an advertising brand of pop and this, two young fellows were in the store, and I made one, and he went out the door, I remember he went out the door, well, he came in, that was it, as long as he was outside, he would be visible. But inside, he would be invisible. So whenever the boy stepped across the threshold, he would immediately disappear. So we would have him walking back and forth across the threshold, see, and finally, I said to him, if you look, he’s in the store, but if you look, and there’s a tremendous lot you can do just by, a little bit of telepathy, see, I said telepathy here, I picked up immediately that he, no use fooling with him any further, see.


But, we had this pole, and I said if you look, and he looked around the store and couldn’t find him. Of course, the fellow was standing right there. But I looked up at this pole, like this, and he watched me, and he thought I was watching the fellow. And when my eyes got down to the floor, “sound of shoe hitting the floor” I stepped on him. “laughter” This fellow collapsed. “laughter” Traumatic weeping. And I said, don’t worry, if you spit on him, he’ll grow. “laughter” He produced a lot of spit. “laughter” This means a whole lot in a way, I’ve got a little, a tail end of Frank’s talk here, I still don’t know things he was talking about. Is that the human mind, this is my complaint, is the human mind is not properly plumbed by the, I think there’s been a big gap in which psychology went commercial. Before that, it was strictly for the pursuit of the knowledge of the mind. And I think when Freud started packaging it, from that time on, it became a commercial item. And the thing is on what I call psychological politics instead of psychological truth, in going to school, you tried to reinforce a certain psychological school. But there’s a tremendous lot of things that can be demonstrated this way, that the mind is, how the mind is influenced, and what causes the mind to have convictions. For instance, his conviction there might have been such, that had he not been visible, he might have taken action. I mean something not being visible, or something being visible. You tell somebody that there’s a wild animal about to attack your wife, see. I, you can hypnotize someone and tell them that their pants leg is on fire, and they’re going to have to put it out or it will creep up on them. These types of suggestion can be given, any degree of it. Any degree of anxiety can be developed. So there’s no real answer for where is, Frank was talking about getting behind the mind, you know. Where is the real self, and what is the real mind, see. We seem to be tremendously at the mercy of our suggestions, yeah, or people suggesting to us, or a state of mind that we’ve all accepted without too much thinking. Yeah-

Q&A: beliefs, suggestibility of the mind

Q. Is that, is it carrying it too far to say that’s some kind of proof that the eyes don’t see? That it’s the mind that sees?

R. Well, that’s, this is an understanding, I say there’s a very simple little answer I give, how the eyes see. You can take one eye out, and look at it. And one will not see, and the other will think it sees. See? In other words the eyes see nothing, detached from the brain. The eyes see nothing. And basically the brain sees nothing, you can analyze that.


You’ll see that the brain sees nothing, because this is proof that the brain sees nothing. In other words, we see what we believe. This is a world of belief.

Q. What we want to.

R. Right. We see what we want to, and that’s because we want to believe it, see.

Q. Can we develop a certain amount of control over a group of people? For example, I “inaudible”


R. Well I think this happens, this happens. I think we’re under the influence all the time. I think there’s even some movement to inhibit subliminal advertising on television.

Q. Yes, there is a federal law about it, certain things.

R. Yeah, because we think you’ll be influenced even more, and you’re influenced anyhow. I mean, I think that, one of the sad things I see about the average American family, is that they put, turn the TV on about 9 o’clock in the morning and it runs til about 4 o’clock the next morning. And you’re getting bombarded, and sooner or later, that party goes out of the world screaming, and blaming it all on the spouse or the husband, or whatever, see.

Q. Mass hypnosis was Hitler, and Germans.

R. Right, right. This is…

Q. Sun Myung Moon.

R. Well, I don’t know, I don’t know what he employs, but I’ll tell you anything that becomes highly dogmatic, and where people dance around on one foot and chant themselves into a state, I have reservations about how much they’re doing for themselves, but nevertheless, here’s another thing about this, that I’ve noticed about this Moon fellow, and some of them. I’ve seen them take kids out of heroin, and cure them, by trading a belief. So, we have, we pay for this stuff, everybody’s paying.

Q&A: Opening up the Head, Dianetics

What is the, I remember one time, I was talking, we used to use anything we could for, opening up the head. And there’s a lot of little systems floating around the country today, it’s like a candy store, you take your pick, if you’ve got enough money. And one was scientology, which used to be dianetics. And I read a book on dianetics years ago. Well now today dianetics is a very complex thing, and Lord knows what could be done with it. But I was intrigued by what they call auditing. It only takes two people to do it. You sit down, one has a piece of paper, and the other one just thinks about anything, see. And you get a chain thought, you for instance you are thinking of necklace, and you think, you repeat the word necklace, necklace, necklace, necklace. Until another thought comes into your head and replace it. Repeat that, and after hours and hours of this, you go back and you get angry or something. And out pops something that is the root of your anger. Or, maybe the cause of a trauma, something of that sort. So I thought, that sounds pretty sensible, why not try it? It’s not going to hurt anybody. So,


one of the people in Steubenville, this lady was a housewife, and she said I don’t know, I don’t know what to do, I can’t get out of the house, and you know, and I can’t follow any spiritual discipline or anything like that, because I can’t get away from the family and that sort of thing. Her husband was a business man up there, and she had to see that his meals were cooked when he got home, and I said why don’t you get one neighbor, and follow some of these little exercises, any little mental exercise, will, it’s better than day dreaming, or its better than just wasting time. So I told her about auditing. I said you can go to the library, or pick up a book on dianetics. It’s all in the one, the first book, see. And I didn’t think I was doing any harm. So she got the book on dianetics, she became intrigued by it, and instead of starting practicing it, she writes for the second course, and the third course. And the next thing you know, she’s caught a plane for Los Angeles, and she’s going to take some, it cost her seven thousand dollars before she got back. I went to her husband, I apologized, I said, I’m sorry, I said, I never intended for that, I intended for her to use this little system. And he said, Rose, don’t worry about it. He said, we were on the verge of breaking up. And he said if that makes her happy, he said, that’s ok. He says in fact, we get along much better, now. Well he, since then, he’s retired, and he came back and he’s into something else, I forget what it is, another five or ten thousand is spent, and he thinks it’s perfectly all right, because his wife and he are now walking hand in hand, like a couple of kids. It costs a lot of money, but what’s money if you’re fighting with each other, see? So, I’ve learned this, when I was younger, I had sharp criticism for anything any money was involved in. I never believed that you had to pay to, you know, for the truth, or for any valid cult. Now you do have to pay for therapy, you know, you have to pay for pills. But that’s because somebody makes the pills, and somebody goes to college for ten years to learn how to dispense it. But, outside of cost, I never could see this idea of say, charging 7000 dollars for a little bit of self-assurance, or a little bit of introspection, so they look at themselves, see. But if there’s no complaint, and I’ve seen this, there’s a Krishna colony not too far from here, and I know personally, I don’t, I keep as far away from them as possible, I’m afraid that it will be contagious, you know, I may be hopping on one foot one of these days. “laughter” I’ve already got the bald head and that’s enough. “laughter” At the same time, I see the heroin addicts that they’ve cured, and they’re just another step above, the zero state of mind. Maybe if they graduate, they may leave there. And I think this happens in a lot of those movements, where people finally do get their wits together, I call it, collect their quantum energy again, and they go out,


and they start leading the foolish life, paying taxes, raising kids, these things. “laughter”

Q&A: Self-Hypnosis, Prayer

Q. Mr. Rose-

R. Yeah-

Q. In your studies, you surely must have read something about self-hypnosis, possibly practiced it.

R. And I experimented a little bit, but I don’t go into it too deeply.

Q. Can’t… I noticed, some of the athletes practice it, some of the golfers, professional golfers, and so on. Isn’t that maybe a viable method of collecting one’s quantum energy, or whatever you call it?

R. Yeah, yeah. It’s like prayer…prayer is autosuggestion. If a person prays sincerely, they pray to themselves. That’s the only person that can hear them. Now, you say, oh, you know, you know better? You know, no. You’re thinking of God? I maintain of course, that God’s inside. And you’re going to have to awaken that, see, but that’s what you’re going for. You’re going to have to awaken yourself to what is already there. And if it’s just barely, merely the fact that the pitcher can’t throw the ball over the home plate, and he’s not looking for God, he’s looking for better physical coordination, so he suggests to himself, whether he does it, he gets out and prays, he can throw the thing across the plate, or he can convince himself by autosuggestion, any form of it. And I grant you it’ll help. But I’ve for instance I’ve had a lot of people want to be cured of smoking. And incidentally who smokes and wants to be cured? “laughter”

Q. Well how about I smack you?

R. Well that takes time. “laughter”

Q. Mr. Rose…

Q&A: Appetites

R. What about that angle?

Q. Why is it hard, why wouldn’t you go on that path, rather than, but you’d rather go on and smoke?

R. I’m copping out, what’s easy for me “laughter”

Q. No, you’re not copping out, it’s, the body wants to live, and in order to survive it has to eat, so therefore it’s easier to break up smoking, although it may become a nicotinic addiction,

R. That’s gonna get better…

Q. but you are more…

R. …and better.

Q. You need food, more than you need smoking. So it’s easier to break smoking than it is eating.

R. Well…

Q. But it’s more natural and normal to eat,

R. Right-

Q. than it is to smoke. R. Well I had a, I’ll give you an example. The reason I said it, it flashed in my mind, I’ve done some work along these lines, and I had a fellow tell me his wife wanted to lose weight, and I say ok, bring her down to the house. So, I never saw his wife before, she was around six feet tall and this big around. I mean, she was a big woman,


she must have weighed 300 pounds. And the first thing I did was stand her under one of these things, and put her to sleep. “laughter” And then I realized, when she fell, she’d knock me flat. So I had to think of another system. So I finally got her asleep, or tried to get her asleep. And I noticed there was always, she was just about half asleep, her inner mind was watching me with one eye all the time, see. I got this.

Finally I remember one time her husband was sitting there, I walked over to him and I said, well one thing she did, I went out to her house, what got me to thinking, and she said, wait till I put the children to sleep. And her husband’s out in the kitchen, reading a book, she went in and put the kid, then I saw her get a glass and some water, and she went… “laughter” Holy Water, see. “laughter” So I went out in the kitchen, and I said, I think your wife’s afraid of me. He said, I could have told you that days ago. I said, doesn’t she want to lose weight? He said, maybe she wants to lose weight, but she don’t want to pay any great price, you know, she wants to, “inaudible” having her children, you know, what is this thing hypnosis? So I was bucking a truth, that appetite has many voices, that appetite to eat, was translating itself into all sorts of superstition, and everything else, to get me away. To get me clear away.

And I tried every trick in the book to put her completely under hypnosis so that I could give her a suggestion that she wouldn’t remember when she awakened. You know, would work automatically. But… you can’t do it. It’s the reason if somebody’s frightened bad enough, oh you can put them to sleep but the benefits of it will, because the mind always has a residual reference, how do you call it, a reservation. It’s always a reservation.

Q. Mr. Rose?

Then you got, you might take weeks, see, but what do the doctors do, the medical doctor, or psychiatrist he’s got other tools. He pumps you full of pentothal or something, amathal or whatever they use, and then he talks to her, and a quick system. But what are the effects? I don’t think the effects are quite the same. I don’t believe you can get the same effect by using drugs. What were you going to say?

Q. I was going to say, with your dissertation, if that is the right term for it, that is I think one of the most prime examples in this country of suggestibility, is this fat consciousness. Because literally it’s thinking that food does not put on weight. If it were so, you would never see the very heavy person who ate very little, or a very thin person who ate a hell of a lot. Now medical society is instead of saying its so much food, they’re saying it’s the metabolism.

R. Yeah.

Q. We get back to it, I did a study on the weight, figure control. It’s controlled by the self image, and that’s why it takes a little bit longer to get rid of, than cigarettes.


Because you have to re-generate the self image inside the person. Once they believe or feel themselves thin, then the weight will disappear of itself.

Q&A: Faith

R. I agree with you, although I still don’t believe that that’s infallible. I mean, I think there are cases, that perhaps, perhaps of fat people in primitive tribes or something that don’t have any, much of an image at all. And there still would be some of them fat and some of them thin. I do believe that the thyroid gland may have something imprinted, and I know nothing about medicine, but I met a lot of hyperthyroid people who ate a lot and burned it up, and hypothyroid people, who could eat one cookie and you know, it seemed to stay with them. And then I do believe, that your, what you say, you can think yourself thin, and you can think yourself rich. I really believe that. This, again this, but what the reason I said it’s not a problem in all cases, I believe it’s like Christian Science. Faith can cure cancer, perhaps, or faith can cure insanity, but will faith put a leg on, that’s been chopped off. We never had a single case of people through faith putting a leg back on, or the mountain moving. It takes a lot of people, you get enough people believing that the mountain will move, it will move. But how many will it take? And it will take enough, that there will be no people on the other side of the mountain, having faith that it’s not going to come over on them.

Q. That’s true, because we…

R. You’ve got counter faith.

Q. We do have on record people, creating new organs and intestines, we’ve come that far.

R. Right, and creating, and possibly, we were talking about this earlier, they are creating new diseases. I maintain that all you have to build is an insane asylum, and somebody will fill it. “laughter” “inaudible” There was a, after world war two, I was working up around Cleveland, I used to travel back and forth to Wheeling, and I saw this big, big construction going on, very close to route 8. I don’t know where it is today, because I haven’t been up there in years. But I inquired, and they said, they’re building an asylum. An insane asylum. And I said, what for? And they said, when the war is over, we know they will have so many mental casualties, that there will be that many boys come back that will be strictly out of it. And they built it. They built it. Statistically, they, but how much, I don’t know how many of you read Chilton Pearce, you know, but how many of us are creating, you know, what I believe, a tremendous…

Q. What, of another war?

R. Huh?

Q. Of another war?

R. No, “inaudible”

Q. The thought of another war, and then it’ll happen.

R. Well, well that’s true, that’s true.


What were, what was, I was going to…

Q&A: Self-Hypnosis, Rolf Alexander

Q. Can I ask you a question about self hypnosis? If a person puts himself into a deep meditative state, which I assume is similar to a self hypnotic state, and someone that they trust very much and is very close to, comes along and begins to speak to them, will they then follow the other person’s directions?

R. I think it depends on the case. You don’t even have to be under hypnosis. You can, there’s a lot of people, that have caught somebody talking in their sleep. And just repeat the word. Like a guy mumbles, he mumbles and you pick up one particular word, maybe… truck. And you say, truck, and he, what truck? That truck, and where. And he’ll tell you where.

Q. I did that with my sister.

R. Sure, sure. And the next thing, the next thing, of course, you can, you can build this up, to a point where you can even find out what they’re worried about. Some worry is trigging this thing off. But then you can put the solution for them in their head. Then when they wake up, you can really make yourself impressive, by saying, you dreamt of a truck last night, and you dreamt it went down such and such a street. This builds a conscious buy-in, belief in it, so that the next time you do it, there’s more and more contact, and more and more conviction they’ll accept from you. So this is, this is how susceptible the mind is about hypnosis. But we talked about auto-hypnosis before, and I ran across a system, I don’t know how many of you are acquainted with Rolf Alexander. Frank was talking about Gurdjieff. Rolf Alexander was a disciple of Gurdjieff, supposedly, I don’t know what certificates Gurdjieff gave out, but he had developed a system of taking you through to a higher state of mind, through auto-hypnosis. And, I read the book, and I thought it would work, with one, one drawback. Under hypnosis, for instance, I hypnotized him to tell that him a certain thing exists, he may be under an illusion for a period of time. But we correct it and the common belief of the group here, reassures him that there was no ship, that he’s back on what I call small r reality. It’s still not too safe, but it’s still...


End of 2_Chautauqua_Hypnosis_Demonstration.mp3

File 3

31 minutes. (audio volume low.)

Could be a separate session. Chit-chat. Some quiet places (lulls in conversation) at 7 minute mark. Various topics incl. auto-hypnosis. Possession. Levi - thaumaturgy. Universal agreement on projection. Pain. Mesmer and Santanelli. Energy and healing.

part 3 of 4 by Eric Clark


R. It’s done, by proxy, or you know, in other words, if you have to heal yourself, it gives you stamina; it gives you mental stamina, and assurance, to take a second step and cure yourself of something else.

Q&A: Breaking Habits

Q. (inaudible) to myself, but I want you to tell me what, how to do it to myself.

R. Well, there’s a number of ways, yeah, I mean, I can give you one real quick. You give yourself a box of chalk, see.

Q. A what?

R. A box of chalk. Half of it’s a habit; keep a box of chalk where you lay your cigarettes.

Q. Aren’t you going to come out with a cassette, Mr. Rose, with breaking, how to break smoking and related subjects?

R. I, yes, I…

Q. I just gave you a suggestion now! “laughter”

R. Yeah but ordinarily if one thing that I’d give up on all those games, I would be interested in making some money at it. But I think each person incidentally has to dope a lot of this stuff out for themselves. I think you have, there’s always a double bind you’re in. One of them is, you have to just like Alcoholics Anonymous, you have to realize that you’re incapable, and then realize that you can be capable, at the same time. It’s a paradoxical situation. You can’t say, the average person says, oh, I can stop any time I wish, I don’t care to. That’s what the alcoholic says. Oh, “inaudible” I’m having fun, see. But you have to first admit that you’re helpless, and then determine that you can be in control of the ship, see. Now, there’s a number of things I think, Nicole, that will help convince you that the cigarette is foolishness.

But, because I smoked. And, what I did, I smoked a cigarette, tear the pack in two, and throw it out the window. While I was driving the car. Throw the whole pack out the window. Finally I got so where I refused to buy them. So I was bumming cigarettes. It’s embarrassing to bum cigarettes, see. I just wouldn’t carry cigarettes, I bummed them. I, I remember one time, there was a poor family lived up here on the ridge. I stopped in to talk to them, and this lady was smoking a cigarette, and they’re living on relief, you know, on public aid. And I bummed a cigarette from her, and I smoked it. I never smoked one after. And when I was, when two months, or three months had gone by and I knew that I wasn’t going to go crazy, I bought a pack for a favorite friend and mailed it to him. “inaudible”, if that’s what she wants to do. See, by being one cigarette at a time, instead of a pack. And I had you know, enough of, I was raised during the Depression, and I didn’t want to waste anything, so I smoked the whole thing. If I had just smoked half, “inaudible” so I had to learn to waste. I had to learn to pick up two pops and throw them out the window. But the thing with the chalk, if you will, when you, if you’re going to smoke a pack every hour, at least once an hour, go through a process and take a piece of chalk with “inaudible”on it. Paint it red on the end. “laughter” Puff on it.


Because, you know what happened to me? I don’t know how many other people do this, but if you anything to do with your hands, you’re talking, you’re going in to interview somebody, or be interviewed or something, or talk to somebody, maybe a little bit of tension. And you reach over and you get one of these cigarettes, or he hands you one, and pretty soon, you’re doing this… and that, the hands don’t have to hang here, see. Yeah, you feel kind of awkward if your hands are just hanging here, see. So here you are, you’re important-looking. You’re going through all sorts of… we get this too, you know, the cigar smoker. Out of the corner of his mouth, you know, like a gangster, almost…

Q. Pipe smoker.

R. Yeah… the whole personality develops. Yeah, the pipe smoker is a man of control, he’s cool, see. He’s always cool and he loves that cool image. Everybody thinks he’s got, you know, he’s got everything solved. And… “laughter” Incidentally, there, I’d like to have the statistics on how of them many wind up in their own pot. They tell me it’s the highest profession; they wind up on somebody else’s couch, of course. Because they believe! They believe. And, see, I don’t, I don’t believe in sanity. I maintain there’s only one type of insanity. That’s in a lesion of the brain. There has to be a brain lesion. All these complexes are not insanity.

Q. Insanity is the only rational response to an increasingly irrational environment.

R. Oh, I grant you that is true. That’s the only way, that’s the only way, how many women resort to it? “laughter” That’s one of the, there’s about a fifty-two part objective that they play, that starts off declaring, demanding, weeping, and then going nuts. “laughter” What is that…

Q. We don’t start wars.

R. Everybody is crazy but he and me, and I’m not too sure about the he.

Q. Some people are obviously more susceptible to hypnosis “inaudible” this applies too, to the hypnotist. Are some more capable of hypnotizing?

R. Right, the people that I would pick out here to hypnotize, somebody else might not. There’s a law, that I read in an old book on hypnosis, that anyone can hypnotize, and anyone can be hypnotized. But not everyone can hypnotize everybody. You have to have the right type.

Q. What kind of energy does that take for you to hypnotize people, anything out of the ordinary?

R. Well, I try to feel, I try to get a read on that. But, basically, when its, when the thing is running smooth, I don’t seem to lose any energy.


But if I run into a difficult case, if I stay with it, I feel that I lose energy. You know, someone that’s slow to going to sleep, and I try to work with it, I’ll wear myself out. “inaudible” Q. Has anyone tried “inaudible” the other person?

R. Generally, generally you can project energy. We were going to do something of this sort, too, I don’t know if we can do it.

Demonstration: taking out a headache

Do you have a headache? No. Who has a headache?

Q. I do.

Q. I do.

R. Ok “inaudible” Well,that’s possible too. Who else? Do you have a headache? Ok, let’s see. Lined up.”inaudible” You have a headache? How about sitting right here. “commotion” Right here? Right. “commotion, no talking” Oh yeah, here’s where, your eyeglasses. Front of your head, front of your head, right?

Q. Yeah.

R. Right, ok now see, I’m not handing anything to you, I’m going to pull it out. So it doesn’t disturb me a bit. 1,2,3.

Q. Now what are you really doing? “laughter”

R. Sure, sure, but probably your eyes too. Your eyes are the cause of it. Ok, you relax, 1,2,3. Let’s do someone else. Do someone else back here. Where did he go? Do you want to come up here? How’s it feel?

Q. My knees are still bad, but the head…

R. Your knees?

Q. Yes. It’s like, just somebody’s taken a lot of energy. Somebody’s got it.


R. Hmm.

Q. I don’t have it.

R. Well, let’s all say thank you before they “inaudible”. “laughter” Do your knees hurt?

Q. Just legs, and just legs, just…

R. I’m not too good on knees, I’m a head specialist. “laughter”

Q. You do nice work on the head.

R. 1,2,3. Relax, just relax. Perfectly all right.

Q What’s wrong with her?

R. Huh?

Q. I didn’t hear what you said, was wrong with her.

R. She’s hurt that’s all. Somebody took her energy.

Q. Yeah.

R. Ok.

Q. Sitting down…

R. There’s nothing here “laughter” Right here?

Q. Well, it’s a little to the right. “silence”

R. You know incidentally, I don’t know what the percentage, I have no knowledge of what the percentage of cases is, that has residual pain.

Q. Oh..yeah

R. But sometimes-

Q. I was going to say, it runs about 90% for some people.

R. Does it?

Q. That you can take that, at least that’s been mine, 80 to 90.

R. Uh, huh.

Q. In your case, Mr. Rose “inaudible”

R. Do you think? Now the other thing is, of course, is that sometimes I can pick it up. That’s the reason I thought she had a headache, sometimes I don’t have to. I had one lady here last year, that really fooled me. She was sitting over there, on that side, and I went around and she said she had a headache. So I went over, and I felt her head, I couldn’t find anything. It was almost like his, and sometimes you don’t at first. But I got an intensely cold spot, very cold. All these points are in heat, because naturally where ever there’s pain, there’s a temperature, a little bit of temperature. So you pick up that temperature. And an intensely cold spot, so I put, I said, does it hurt here? And she said, no, just the opposite, on the other side. So I thought it was cold, and it puzzled me. So I worked with her for oh, two or three times. I finally got the pain away, by going through that manipulation. But it dawned on me after she left, that she had a tumor. It was a brain tumor. It wasn’t, there was, in other words, I wasn’t going to take the pain away, it was too late, see.


And instead of there being life there, and life fevered up trying to repair, it had given up, there was no, there was no, and then I talked to her, and I got the, she said it was recurrent, and the frequency was increasing over the last so I just come to the conclusion that, so it come to me as a hunch she had something permanent in there, and these are mostly migraine. Incidentally migraine headaches are mental. I don’t like to go in to it too much, because it was a, if somebody’s interested, somebody has migraine headaches, I’ll talk to you privately, but I don’t want to go in to it publically, because every case is different. Now is anybody from the American Medical Association here, with a warrant? “laughter”

Q. How true!

Q. I’m working on it. “laughter”

Q. I thought everybody knew migraine was emotional. “laughter” I’ve always known that. Never..

Q. And he had these people go around and give their intuitive answers on questions.

R. Um hm.

Q. I’ve been doing some considerable reading in the literature, indicate, that thought takes form. And if you think things are going to happen, you will make them happen. Now that’s…

R. That’s what the gentleman was saying back there.

Q&A: Positive Thinking

Q. Yeah. But if you did the real salient point of thinking positive…

R. Ahh, well, you know, here’s the thing. Positive thinking can be just as dangerous, as positive doubtful thinking. I don’t think you should really be intentionally negative. Because of course it’s hard to be negative, because even if you have something that’s negative for someone else, it will be positive to you, see. In other words, you may want to kill somebody, but it’s positive to you, because you’re welcoming it. But we can’t, there are so many people trying to think positive. What for?

Q. To make things better obviously.

R. Better? How do you know what’s better?

Q. Well, in the sense that there might be less pain, like…

R. No, no, why? Why less pain?

No, no… no I really believe, there’s a possibility, now this is to say it’s a possibility, I can’t prove anything.

But what I mean, one side’s as good as the other. There’s a possibility that pain is education. And if there was no counter “inaudible”, if there was no, you know, if there was nothing but pleasure, you would 500 pound hogs laying around underneath the face of the earth. Who would die, you know, from…

Q. in their case of war…

R. they would just indulge in pleasure.

Q. In the case of war, is when so many innocent people are killed.


R. And nobody, nobody is anything but innocent. Nobody is anything but a victim.

Q. Mr. Rose,

R. We don’t, we can’t conclude, huh?

Q. …on that thing Tim got, a Greek philosopher many years ago, said, it was never the thing that started anything, just a reaction or a thought.

R. Yeah, there’s nothing wrong with death, you know. There’s nothing wrong with death. It doesn’t matter how you die, you know. I remember one time, my father got killed. And I was very angry, the first impulse is to go out and get the fellow who killed him. And then I realized, that he used to say all his life, I don’t want to die in bed. How else is he going to die? He has to have a death. He has to have something fall out of the heavens and kill him, else it’s of human origin, see. A safe falls off a rope; we could go blame the guy that was pulling the safe up.

Q. There are lots of people that just decide they’ve lived long enough, and they go upstairs and go to bed and just don’t wake up.

R. Well, I’ve heard of a case like that…

Q&A: Thaumaturgical Laws, Reality of Spirits

Q. Mr. Rose, speaking of death, how much similarity is there between self-hypnosis and let’s say a spiritualist medium going into a trance. Is there any similarity?

R. Well, no, I don’t think so. Because, one of them is opening a door to visitors, and the other one is telling yourself you’ve got a condition.

Q. I see, one’s opening up the communication, the other one you’re controlling yourself.

R. Yeah, I sometimes wonder how well, for instance, under hypnosis, under autohypnosis, whether you could even protect yourself. Which is another thing. I think that you might have more of a protection than somebody that isn’t, that’s unskilled. I think that one of the things that is very dangerous. To become mediumistic, without first reading all the necessary safeguards. I think that you can, well, I’ve ran into in the last five years, I’ve ran into quite a few people, especially young people that are fooling with dope, and black magic, in other words, they’re tempting, they think it’s thrilling. They get into dope, and black magic and sexual rites all mixed up, and they come out possessed. And the average, technical, psychological answer is, that this fellow’s schizophrenic or something. But I believe that they let the door open. And again, the Hindus have a word for it. But we don’t have them in our literature here, but “inaudible” call them chakras, there are places possibly where nerve ganglia exist, which is more a possibility of taking in, in other words, an apprehension…in other words you can apprehend stuff, and your mind derives both, you don’t have to see it, see. And for instance, if you sit, and think about something long enough,


just like people pray, to a certain calendar image of Christ, if they pray long enough, that calendar image takes form. And he appears, and he speaks to him or something. But the catch is, he’s never Semitic, he’s Aryan, like he appears on the calendar, see. So you can create something, and some intelligence steps in there and animates your own mental creation, and answers your, well, either, answers your need, or fiddles with your head. Hard to tell. Yeah-

Q. Is that the same thing that happens with spells and rituals?

R. Ah, I don’t, I don’t, you know, did you ever read Eliphas Levi?

Q. No.

R. There’s a, incidentally, I’ve got a, there’s a book up there, written, Arthur Edward Waite translates it, the Levi book. Levi was one of the outstanding thaumaturgists, people who would bring up the spirits, in other words he would materialize things, or. And he did not by spiritual “inaudible” cabinets, but by invocation. He just drew a circle or something on the floor and had certain invocations and these things would appear. Now, they, there’s a protection, that he, first of all, he’d never indulge in alcohol or anything, that would entrap him. That would open up a door, and that’s the reason the book’s for sale up there incidentally. Because a lot of these young people, they’ll pick every temptation to fool with something like that, they’ll learn that there’s a safeguard. And Levi knew it. That’s what kept him in sanity, see. But he claimed that he had met people in his exercises “inaudible”, that were addicts. They were addicted to spirits. They were continually going to mediums in order to lose or gain energy. I presume it was more loss than gain.

Q. Were these things a reality?

R. They’re as real as a virus. This is not the only dimension. I’m speaking of physical terms, these are physical creatures as real as a virus. We can’t see a neutron, for instance, or a force field, in a “inaudible”, in an atom. But we accept it, by virtue of scientific authority. That the explanation is there.

There has to be some explanation for what goes on when two chemicals are poured together. Right down the line to where we determine there are such things as electrons, neutrons, protons, et cetera. Plus what are these made of, this… We accept this on a scientific basis. But on a scientific basis we deny that there are creatures that are invisible, and we know that our retina has a limitation on the number of things that it can see. Our ears are less than a dog’s. A dog can pick up more than we can pick up. But we very proudly say what we can’t see or hear, doesn’t exist.


This is another attitude of barnyard psychology. Don’t, this is all nonsense unless you can put it in a test tube and run an analysis on it, see. So consequently the things that, for 10,000 years we’ve had a psychiatry that worked. Without the medicine. They were experts at it. Africa had the knowledge of this. And we’re always sending missionaries down to people who know more than we know. “laughter”

Q&A:Taking out Headaches

Q. How large a sample have you got on pain relief on migraine headaches, yourself? How many people have you done this to?

R. I’ve never asked. Oh, I’ve done dozens, I don’t...

Q. I mean, real, true migraines. At least dozens, you’re saying.

R. Uh huh.

Q. Have you ever been unsuccessful with a migraine?

R. I don’t doubt that I have, about, maybe ten percent.

Q. Ten percent?

R. Uh, huh…I don’t doubt. I read a, I don’t even know what pains it is, see. All I say is that if they have… There’s a lady back there, that, several years ago, that’s Frank’s wife. Frank, Jean. Jean, “laughter” how many years ago has it been, Jean? That you had those headaches, and I take your headaches away.

Q. “inaudible”

R. Uh, huh.

Q. “inaudible”, yeah I had some really…

R. We’d just be sitting in a room talking, that’s her husband, that gave the last talk. And we’d be sitting down my place talking and I’d notice her eyes look a little strange, and I’d say, you’ve got a headache, or something. And she’d say, Oh, I’ve got a splitting headache. So I’d, we’d just stop “inaudible”, get rid of the headache. And we’d go on talking, see. I didn’t particularly know what it was, but I know that, you have to sort of get a reading from the people themselves. They can tell you if its migraine or not.

Q. Thing was, I’ve done a lot of regular headache stuff, only got really one migraine.


R. Oh, you eliminated one?

Q. Yeah, I had one migraine.

R. Um,hmm.

Q. They’re very difficult to find.

R. Yeah, well I don’t know what these were. I don’t know. How many of you people have migraine headaches, that they got to work with? Either of those? You don’t have migraine?

Q. Tension headaches, possibly.

Q. I have tension headaches,

R. Yeah, right…

Q. ...almost every day, sometimes.

Q&A: Theory of how pain works

R. Yes, I don’t know. I believe that, you see, I think that pain is basically a belief also.

Q. Um,hmm.

R. That the, in other words, there’s a signal occurs, and where that signal occurs, I don’t know. But when the apparatus is not functioning properly, a signal is transferred from the physical body to this illusive thing called mind, which is not somatic. I don’t accept the somatic mind. And so it sends a signal back, which the mind, the body believes it has to activate itself. In other words it has to believe, there’s pain.

And this occurs incidentally in a child who has never been told about pain. So consequently it’s a human family, the planetary family, even the dogs believe in it. Cats believe in pain, see. It’s an agreement; it’s a signal agreement-system. And you can, the Christian martyrs, for instance went out in the arena and let the lions chew them to pieces and didn’t feel it. They tortured people in the old days, you know, primitive times and burnt them at the stake and everything else, and they didn’t feel it, because they set their head a certain way, and that was it, it was out. And there’s different ways of explaining it. One of them they talk about, making friends with pain, see. And you know, just, transcending it, so to speak. It’s not too healthy, because it’s there for a purpose. But on the other hand, if you allow that signal to, if you try to be hysterical, or over-sensitive, then you magnify it. And it will give you fits. I mean, you can actually put a person into convulsions, see. And I’ve noticed this myself, about, to give an example one time, there was, a girl stayed at our house, was cutting some cold, frozen hamburgers and cut the end off her finger. And she happened to be a type, that didn’t feel much pain. She didn’t seem to register much pain. And of course, I’m vicariously, thinking my God, you know, how that must hurt.

Q. It don’t. I lost an end of mine once, and it don’t hurt!

R. Right, right.

Q. When you touch something, …

R. Right,

Q. it…

R. Right, uh,huh, well I ran her up the hospital, and took her to the emergency room, and the guy, he looks at it, and he gets in there with a pair of tweezers that start to tie the veins off, and I said, hey, you know, I could see he was up underneath of her fingernail and stuff, man, I said, ain’t you got anything to, any hypodermic, you know, he didn’t think it was necessary. So more or less, to please me, he gave her a shot right out of the fingernail, and I fainted. “laughter”

R. This doctor, I went out, once, my head was going around like this, what happened was, grabbed the bench, and they’re not giving any antiseptic to the girl, but there’s a nurse out there waving a bottle under my nose “laughter”

Q. You can imagine how that hurt though when the doctor poured tincture of iodine seven percent on it.

R. Right.

Q. Ooooh.

Q. … convince you that something was wrong.

Q. How long ago did that happen, when you felt that fear for that woman, or that girl?

R. Oh, that’s been twenty years ago.

Q. Your libido has been on a wend since? No really, I’m not kidding.

R. Well, no, I, listen, listen, this is true, there’s one thing you learn, if any of you are interested in learning, interested in hypnosis or a being a nurse, or any type of thing where you are in therapy, group therapy, or anything like this, you have to learn to build a mental wall of indifference.


And work behind that wall. Or you will kill yourself of sympathy.

Q. I don’t know about that. You have something wrong with you.

R. Right, right.

Yeah. I don’t know what’s wrong with… yeah-

Q. I wanted to ask “inaudible”

R. No. To be honest with you, and this is the thing, maybe somebody can draw an interpretation, maybe they know more about it than I do. All I know is that it works. Now, and I don’t think it matters too much what you do. As I said, under the proper conditions all you have to do is point at somebody. Just point and they go to sleep. And under other conditions, I’ve worked for two hours to get someone asleep.

Q&A: hypnosis theories

Q. Well how does “inaudible” this method, did someone teach it to you?

R. No, I did this all, without, I did this when I was twenty years old. I went through, I got a book, I ran into a book in the library by a fellow name of Santanelli, who was the most astute hypnotist I’d ever encountered in print. And he had, he went, he explained the different techniques as you call it, and I tried them all. And I believe there is something to mesmerism. See they call this the fluidic theory.

There’s the mechanical theory. The mechanical hypnotic system is when you point something in front of someone’s eyes, see, or you could roll their head, they tell you to roll their head around, and you wear them out, that’s all. It’s you or them, you wear them down. “laughter” And…but I found, I found that if things aren’t too adverse, I have a rapport with the subject, see, that’s the reason when I look around the room, I’m looking inside the head, I’m trying to figure, what’s going to be the reaction to a hypnotic, you know, attempt, see. And so consequently, I believe in the fluidity of exchange. I believe that you can heal by just projecting that thing.

Q. “inaudible”

R. Well, I don’t think that I project any energy. As I told this lady here, I said, I’m not going to project, I’m going to take it from you. I’m pulling something out, I’m not giving you anything. I’m just pulling something out of your head, see. But I do know that you can heal, and I could, I don’t like to go into something that I can’t prove, and here, just popping off. But I’ve done some things and learned to regret, in other words, every person’s born at a certain time for a certain reason, and they should die at a certain time, for a certain reason, and it’s not for me to mess it up. So a little headache or something? Yeah, ok, that’s not going to louse up the cosmic plan too much. Yeah-

Q. Mr. Rose, have you ever pulled out a head cold?

R. Well, I don’t remember, if I ever have, no. I don’t doubt that you can do it. Yeah, yeah, I don’t doubt that you can do it.

Q. Could you try it on me?

R. You got one?

Q. Yeah. I can’t get rid of it.

R. Sure, well. In here, is it?

Q. Yeah, the throat too.

R. Throat, too. Ok, well. Does it predominate in your throat?

Q. Yeah.

R. Ok, “inaudible” a little bit then. “No words for approximately 30 seconds”

R. You’re making sense. “laughter”

Q. Mr. Rose, have you ever…


End 3_Chautauqua_Hypnosis_Demonstration.mp3

File 4

15 minutes. (audio volume low.)

Continuation of side 3. Desire, obsession, habits, belief. Law of between-ness. Vector = A man is only what he does.

part 4 of 4 by Eric Clark

Q. …have a difficulty in bringing a person out of the hypnotic state?

R. Yes,yes.

Q. I was somewhat surprised, that you did not make some kind of a disclaimer about anyone trying this themselves, because it could be dangerous.

R. Sure, it’s dangerous.

Q. Yeah.

R. Sure it’s dangerous. You can rape people under hypnosis; you can murder people under hypnosis. In other words I’m, I told you when I started here I’d tell you the truth. Be careful who hypnotizes you, see. Make sure it’s some old man. “laughter”

Q. “inaudible”

R. Conscience.

Q&A: Human Will/Tenacity

Q. Yeah, in other words “inaudible”… to do something against their will, I think…

R. Human beings have no will.

Q. I beg your pardon?

R. Human beings have no will. Except what they suggest. Will is a word which a man thinks about, it’s like a gestalt that he, its embryonic. He develops this embryonic gestalt, to a point where it pops out and gets more powerful and more powerful, with his belief. To a point where he seems to do a tremendous lot. It’s just like when I start hypnotizing, I said, when I was a kid, twenty years old, I said, I’m going to hypnotize some people, or I’m going to, they’re going to get awful tired, I don’t care if I drop dead, I’m going to keep at it until somebody goes to sleep. So I wore the first one out, that’s all. Well, that gave me the confidence to correct my errors on the second one. But so this is, you might say this guy is a very willful person, he’s got a lot of willpower or something.

Q. Perseverance.

R. Yeah, it’s just tenacity. You know, the bulldog has it, when he bites, he don’t let go, that’s all. But it’s the, it’s from being born in a depression, and knowing that you, when you get a piece of cheese you better hold on to it, see? So a lot of people who were born and raised in the depression days, developed a tenacity, that’s all. But that, you can interpret that as will. But the human being has no, I’ll tell you why, the reason I say this. It’s because, all you have is a choice. In other words, what, where does the thought come from to have a will? We never, we’re doing what Frank mentioned, tracing back the origin of thought, versus this “I want to do something”. Why? There’s an appetite telling you, even that he wants to hypnotize. Self, self, you know, he likes, to get up in front of a bunch of people and show off, or something. Or he wants to be a magician, and you know, make people believe he got something that he doesn’t have.

Q. Can will, can that be anonymous?


R. Well, I don’t like to say its anonymous, because one implies, will implies that you are capable of doing something. And the organism does, if it’s reinforced enough, whether it’s reinforced by itself or by Papa or Mama, or the teacher, see. You reinforce, and reinforce, and pretty soon the guy thinks he’s smart, see. Or he thinks he’s incapable of doing things. And half, I remember one time a fellow, that, he was in the MP’s, in the army, and he said, I could beat Joe Louis. He said, we’re trained to kill with our bare hands. And I’ve never been anything but out of shape and fat, and I stood him on his head on the concrete. Just by, you know, an old trick that you learn in the street. “laughter” He had this belief held up, he wouldn’t go, that he would tackle anybody. Because they had convinced him, that he was capable of judo chops, and God knows what, I don’t know. And that he wasn’t prepared for what I did. “laughter”

Q. Did you learn that in Cleveland? “laughter”

Q. Or Steubenville.

R. Pretty much the same, but I think that everything Steubenville got they learned from Wheeling. “laughter” Well, what time is it? “break in tape” And that is, all the time, you remind yourself, what happened. Always remind yourself, that you are doing this yourself. In other words, if you’re going, in other words, say you want to get yourself in the gym, so that you can lift a hundred pounds more than you could right now, see. And, if you keep doing that, well of course, you’ll increase your, for instance, we’ve done this as an experiment, where you hypnotize a person, and have them lift something when they’re not hypnotized, and then hypnotize them and then have them lift an excessive amount of weight.

Now, I quit doing it, because it is possibly, not too good for the system. He could still strain a muscle, although his cataleptic state and in a cataleptic state they crack off some, “inaudible” hurt, sledgehammers bounce off the stomach, because he has developed a whole rigidity in his body. But regardless, I’m not so sure what happens in this muscles in the organs inside the body, that don’t have muscles. How would you react when they are dropping rocks on top of him, see. “inaudible” Too much of a chance. Same thing with autosuggestion. You’re liable to get the idea, that if you exceed what you really set out to do. You know, you may go beyond that, you may think you can lift five hundred pounds or you may think that you can, you know endure something and then get hurt.


Or, a whole mental obsession or egotism could grow up with success along with such lines, see. And it’s just like, smoking cigarettes. I think you get, autosuggestion, take autosuggestion to cure yourself of smoking. And, but at the same time, I think if you’re, always should remind yourself of what you are doing. So that in case any state of mind creeps in, because you’re going to have a lot of little rubrics that you’ll throw in there, like I said, chalk, you know, you don’t want to wind up with a fetish for chalk. “laughter”. By reminding yourself as you go along, you’ll keep account of the sane part on yourself. Q. Question, what about “inaudible”

Q&A: Hypnosis with Children

R. I have, personally I don’t know anything about it, because I have never been to a “inaudible” with children. I don’t, I, it might be my belief. First of all, I don’t believe in hypnotizing children. I don’t believe in, well, let’s say by children, I’d say anybody under 15 years of age. I think the 12 to 15 year olds group would be alright, if they, remember I said the first few last few years of high school. The 12 to 15 year old group might be alright, if they proved susceptible, if there was a valid reason for doing it, if their parents approve. And the kids approve. Everybody should approve. Because I don’t believe, I’m, I complain now that the child is hypnotized too much. You never get, you get a few children who aren’t hypnotized. We call them autistic. And we go to great bother to try to brainwash them into our kind of foolishness. And they resist as long as they are able. But you asked me something here, and I didn’t answer. What was it you asked me, what am I doing? I’ll…

Q&A: Law of Between-ness

Maybe I should leave you with this, while you can think about it while you’re eating. What I do, is a result of what I call the Law of Between-ness. And this is the best explanation to it that I can give for it, give to it. It’s because I don’t do anything hardly, unless I feel, that the wobble is just right. “inaudible”anything.

Q. You do know, though, yourself.

R. I do know that there’s a time…

Q. You can’t get up and heal…

R. I know there’s a time. I know that almost anything, can be done. If you can bring the mind, you feel it, you bring the mind where you “inaudible”, see, this is the reason it’s difficult to talk about it. It’s neither right nor left, see, it’s neither lack of confidence, nor egotism, its waiting for, what’s supposed to be. 9:02

When you know what’s supposed to be, you move. And if it’s not supposed to be, it doesn’t matter, see.

Q. No, you’re contradicting yourself. You said something that, once you did something, and it wasn’t time, if someone’s ready to die, or, and you heal them, and time, you know upset their whole timetable Ok, now what is that plan.

R. Well, it’s I, well, sure, I’ve done things through egotism. I done, what I was referring to…

Q. Then the time wasn’t right “inaudible”

R. It wasn’t, well, well, the time was right for me to play egotism. Let’s put it that way, if you say that, sure. But I’m saying that you can inject yourself into a situation. What happens is “inaudible”, I’m sorry for. Q. Yes, well what happened after you did that. Did her life, wasn’t the same?

R. It was just miserable endurance, until finally I let go, and… they died. There was no, there was no improvement. Their time had come, and that’s all. I think you run into a lot of these cases, where, where is the line? Where is the line, between actual fate. See, I say a lot of stuff is pre-destined, or a lot of stuff seems to be inevitable. But at the same time, we cannot function as human beings, unless we function as though we were doing something. Nobody does anything in a fatalistic manner, everybody moves as though they were doing something, we have no alternative, that’s our game plan, see. So somewhere in between there, is what I’m talking about in everything.

There’s a point in between, it’s almost a sacred point, in which everything exists. The other two are wobbles, see. So that sure… what was it Craig said? Craig said asking, who was wrong, the person was sick, from that point was said, what was it, grandfather, great-grandfather? And he said, no, this person was made sick, so that I could heal him. In other words, he’s giving almost a fatalistic, predestination line.

Q. That’s what I was going to say, that guy was destined to be sick at that time…

R. Right, right. But you see, I don’t believe that, either. I mean, I don’t believe the whole structure. I believe that instance, that case was. Because Christ, Christ didn’t have any ego, in that respect. He wasn’t going out, showing off. Oh, he, some people might have thought he was. But my point with this, there was, it’s like the saying at Alcoholics Anonymous, they’ve got a little saying, I can never remember it correctly, you people, some may know it better than me. God give us the grace to know the things we change, what things we can’t change, the wisdom to know the difference. In other words, there’s a, the policy I think you have to follow in life, is to wait until you know what you should be doing, and then do it with enthusiasm, give it all you got. As though, you were able to do it. We have no alternative except to act in that fashion. And then life seems to be, we seem to be doing something, at the same time we’re doing the will of God, and whatever the purpose of life is.


So this is the thing, you’ve got to remove yourself, and yet you’ve got to be there too. And but there’s a magical point, there’s a magical point in all this, if you want to learn it.

Q. And that you did, up, you climbed in at the right time.

R. I don’t know, how many of them I hit. And I don’t know that, see, that part I don’t know.

Q. “inaudible” where you need…

R. I do, that’s what I think I know. I no, I am not, I am not absolutely positive. There’s some of them, I’m quite sure of, there’s feelings I’m sure of, in other words I’m sure of what I feel, with my hand. I’m sure of that. But it’s not up to me. I mean, I leave it, when I pull my hand away, I leave it. So that’s not up to me. If it happens, good. If it doesn’t happen, well who am I to “inaudible” what happens? But you’re tall…

Q. Mr. Rose, we talked about the magical point, that you’re supposed to wait for.

R. Hmm,hmm.

Q. And in the meantime, you just float in the stream, and not concern yourself…

R. No, no, no, you have to spend your life fighting, to find the point that you’re supposed to be doing. Right, dynamically looking for where you should waste your life. “laughter” Sure, I mean, to all appearances. Its, you know, it would be nice if we could learn it from one, that’s it. Enjoy the rest of life.

Q. You can’t sit back and wait for it to happen to you. You should seize it now.

R. See, I have another little crazy theory. A man is only what he does. And if you sit too long, we’re a sitter.

Q. What was that Mr. Rose, please?

R. I said, a man is only what he does. And if a man sits, and he’s a fatalist, he’s a sitter, see? And if he isn’t , if he acts, he’s a vector, in terms of physics. He’s a vector. It’s much better to be a vector than a period.

Q. It’s better to be a participant rather than a spectator.

R. Right, right, even though, even though you’re not too sure you’re doing it. See? But at least you’re a vector in that direction.

Q. Mr. Rose-

R. Yeah-

Q. “inaudible”

R. “laughs” Leaving footprints. Oh, this evening? Why, we’re going to have another talk on hypnosis, by Ander Jo, here, who is a hypnotist from Northern Pennsylvania. And we’ll have a panel discussion, you know, an informal discussion, whatever he’s got cooking in the pot.

Q. What time are we supposed to start?

R. About, we had planned for him to start about 6, but I think the meeting’s to start around 6.30, what do you think?

Q. Any time.

Q. This is your wish?

R. Yeah, we’ll have to get, we’re going to…

Q. 6.30 should be fine.

R. Anybody want to…


end of 4_Chautauqua_Hypnosis_Demonstration.mp3



=== end ===