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Title 1978-0412-Going-Within-KSU-Part-2
Recorded date Mid 1970s per Rose Publications and tape labels
Number of tapes
Other recorders audible?
Alternate versions exist?
Source RP and DW. for RP see 1970s-Going-Within-commercial-recording
No. of MP3 files
Total time DW is 1 x 60. Approximately 62 minutes
Transcription status
Link to distribution copy http://distribution.direct-mind.org/
Link to PDF http://distribution.direct-mind.org/ Or try http://selfdefinition.org/rose/
Published in what book?
Published on which website?
Remarks Begins with Q&A - method of studying past traumas.
Audio quality
Identifiable voices
URL at direct-mind.org https://www.direct-mind.org/index.php?title=1978-0412-Going-Within-KSU-Part-2
For access, send email to: editors@direct-mind.org
Revision timestamp 20150311004542


Available from Rose Publications via CD Baby: http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/richardrose2 See 1970s-Going-Within-commercial-recording

Versions: SN = 1 x 60 ; DW = 1 x 60 ; Commercial recording = 10+9+4+8+7+22+3=63

Identifiable voices: Tim Franta (so probably Ohio)

Old notes: “There are two talks – need to see if they are the same, and if they are same as Cecy’s CD. 1st says Going Inside / Going Within and is dated on spreadsheet as “November 1977”, one 90 minute cassette, three mp3 files from Jake. 2nd says 1970s, one 60 minute cassette from Shawn.”

This is NOT 1977-11-Method-of-Going-Inside-Pittsburgh (MJ title='Going Within') but date is probably close.

Try to find location, then create page separate from the commercial recording.

Date cues

Side 2, min 11:13: I gave a lecture here six months or a year ago Psychology of the Observer -- So this would be 1978. The lectures would have been: 1977-1004-Psychology-of-Zen-Science-of-Knowing-OSU or 1977-1012-Psychology-of-the-Observer-Kent-State

Side 1, min 9: somebody said last night that somebody has to carry the torch Known talks in Ohio in 1978 are 1978-0412-Kent-State-University a Wednesday and 1978-0511-Relative-and-Absolute-OSU-Columbus a Thursday. << check these for such a remark

So if 1978-0412-Kent-State-University this would be 1978-0413-OSU. And if 1978-0511-Relative-and-Absolute-OSU-Columbus this would be 1978-0512-KSU or Akron.

File dw1

31 min noise at start Q&A session is already underway

Q. inaudible

R. Well, I have a paper written on meditation, and basically what it amounts to is what I talked about previously: Do not get into quiescent meditation. You’ll never find out any real revelations about yourself in quiescent meditation. And this is what, just exactly what you have to do is go back in the past. If you can’t think about something i the present, go back in the past. And this will start to melt your egos. And this is when you start to really find yourself.

Go back in the past and look at things that happened to you, like somebody who insulted you, some trauma, some sorrow, some time that you embarrassed yourself. That’s when somebody caught your ego for you, wanted to show it to you and you didn’t want to see it. These are the things to meditate about.


Q. By quiescent you mean mantra meditation?

R. Yes. Autosuggestion, puts you, has a soporific effect. It’s like a lullaby, you lullaby yourself to sleep.

Q. ??

R. Yes.

Q. You said do the opposite, right?

R. Yes. It’s what I call traumatic meditation as opposed to quiescent meditation

get away from the family for a half hour or so

reading Madame Blavatsky’s Secret Doctrine and Isis Unveiled.

no correlation; I don’t know what caused

a diary is very good

Q. Transcendental Meditation people make a lot of claims


R. money involved

if you want to build a movement, there’s nothing like money to hold it together

Switzerland for the privilege of taking a rake off

well worth the $80

would have to pay his way over here

what is exorbitant

Q. dream

R. it’s good to record your dreams


some dreams are prophetic

you will start to see certain hangups

picnic 5 years ago

picnic correlates to an argument

you’re trying to tell yourself something

I was able to see people more clearly

behind the personality mask


Q. inaudible

R. I don’t believe you should expect power

the older I get the more power I seem to have

studying these things and having then in my head for 40-50 years

I don’t visualize it as my power

ability to affect the projected stage play, to a degree

you can affect other minds

enter other minds

rapport sessions

heal people

generally it’s not worth it

side show

people come from Boston [? what year?]


back into the old rat race

now I don’t let them happen

somebody said last night [when? where? date clue] somebody has to carry the torch

human and the absolute like rays of the sun


Tim Franta: Objective of meditation

R. watch the mental processes

watch yourself eating, watch yourself talking

in the middle of the conversation say something that blasts any possibility of a friendship

never lose track of that pattern

the animals out there trying to manipulate


there’s more intensive work than the university groups

obsessed with self-importance

it’s up the dynamic drive of the individual

results are proportional to energy applied

fifth of whiskey on the table

same amount of direction and find a spiritual value

hard road, not accepting

doubt me

maybe I stir your head up if nothing else

they may be inspired to go digging

Zen is one of them

Gurdjieffian system



Q. inaudible

R. The spiritual realm and the mental realm are pretty much the same

physical quantum energy

stored in our muscles and fat

the brain isn’t much more than a coil

the mental dimension

there is novehicle for spiritual energy

caloric energy, kinetic energy, heat


civilization is the result of sublimation

hanging from a tree playing with ourselves

not in the form of telepathy

tap someone

realization, highest form


Nobody does anything for nothing

unless it has a real, spiritual purpose it’s foolishness

no way it can be anything l see by human standards

nothing wrong with killing people

there’s no reason for doing it, and there’s no reason for thinking we’re above it

somebody drops a hammer from a scaffold


west coast Gurdjieff-Spinoza groups

I don’t know too much about Spinoza

Fourth Way


my looking back over the roll of film

Ouspensky’s idea of immortality

what we have to develop is our living in awareness

it’s a good discipline

first psychology western mind

man is a robot

a robot should never be tried in court


would quit calling the alienist to testify

has to have reinforcement for passing laws

they still say that man is responsible

the theme goes on, that what you need is a chief programmer for the robots

nothing more that psychological petexes

Skinner masturbating the lions


our psychologists have sold out

What time is it? [so close to the end]

Q. inaudible


trying to reach behind and find your own spring


run the show

“If you want free will then you’ve got to be responsible.”

free will agent, so therefore we can punish you

99% of all crimes, find out how he got fouled up in the gears

lot of injustice

we don’t have time

the only thing we need to do is save themselves


if they won’t tolerate us we’ll have to hide

get fat and wear a suit

Tim: Q, on responsible, sets of voices, get away from the work right now I’m stirred up

R. you should never drink beer except in a beer joint that has a mirror

some drunken woman at a table

talk to the fellow in the mirror



R. I feel sorry for the waitresses and nurses buy from a machine in the bar they abuse it

I was trying to think of something I had written years ago.

I saw a line of men along a bar, looking into the glass. Each man sees himself as God, the next as an ass.

File 2

32 min

and they believed, like the Presbyterians, in destiny, predestination

so you think “Why follow a spiritual path, if it’s all predestined?”

he said that the whole scheme was already laid out. But he said, “We have the privilege of desire.” [gap]

that there was an intelligence besides theirs, or else they’re schizoid. In other words, they’ve got a split intelligence

Like if person gets drunk

can’t stop

finds out that he has a history, repeated uncontrollable drinking sprees. And when he recovers from it temporarily, he makes up his mind that he was wrong. Whenever a man makes up his mind that he was wrong, he’s talking about two people.


Q. Why does it have to be two people? Why can’t it be …?

R. Well, because there’s a person, there’s a voice that says it’s very logical and sensible to drink. And when you talk to alcoholics, people who are in a certain phase of drinking the people who don’t drink are crazy. But that same person, when he gets too much and recovers, then anybody who drinks is crazy. So he’s got two sets of conviction

one of those states was brought upon by something prompting him from outside of himself. I don’t say he’s necessarily schizoid, but he goes through a state of conviction, a state of mind where he believe that it’s valid – maybe it’s sex, maybe it’s booze, dope. But everybody’s had experience along that line to know that they heard argument for dissipation

and then, that’s what I call, this is when we first get into the study of the egos, or the voices of man, and we realize that we are neither one. In other words, because we’re watching these two parts of ourselves argue, fight over the destiny of that self that’s observing this

This is the first step in meditation when you see this, when you begin to see that you are dichotomized, that there’s more than one

the stomach will put up a whole set of arguments; the gonads will have a whole set of philosophy

I know a fellow who drank heavily and he was quite convinced that belonged at the Last Supper and that’s where he got his start. Because Christ drank wine, so he wasn’t doing anything wrong, he was just doing more of it

But later that stuff goes. And my conclusion is that it comes from outside of the self. The self ?? kill itself drinking. The self does not want to take dope until the person is helpless and can’t recover. So it’s caused by suggestion from an intelligence exterior to the man.


Q. … area outside of the self that …?

R. The mind dimension, basically.

Q. …. that area …?

R. Well, that’s what is in this area. When this body winds up in the hospital or the morgue, and the observer or the person sees himself headed that way

the weakness of modern psychology. They prefer to deal with just what they see, and they ignore this stuff, thinking it will go away, thinking if you don’t give credence to it. That we build unnecessary credence, we build unnecessary importance by identifying and accepting something – which they would like to think is a tribal superstition. But this is psychology that’s been proven by 10,000 years of layman and church investigation

in Asia as well, for thousands of years they have struggled with the nature of man and [have] come up with the same philosophy

6,000 years has had a strong belief in the existence of entities, as being influential on people’s behavior.


R. Oh, you mean going beyond that into spirituality? Unfortunately you can’t meditate if something’s chewing on you. This is what you get into. I noticed that when people were taking acid, people would come around that were maybe taking acid and they would pick up on what I said, and it would almost inspire you with hope for them. because they were right with you; they had this direct-mind contact as the result of the acid and you’d think, “Boy, this is the spiritual chance for the person.” But next day he doesn’t know what the hell you were talking about; he’s got the whole thing completely – he’s off on another trips. It’s buttercups today, yesterday it was Zen.


So there’s no way to transcend the step by step method of dealing with what we have at hand: first the human body, then the human mind, and knowing all there is to know about the human mind. Because you’re going to have to go through that, to find the real self. It’s not a question of – in other words, some philosophies create concept structures, some religions create concept structures: “Heaven is such and such.” And then books and books and books are printed to try to justify wishful thinking. As opposed to saying, “I know nothing but I’m going to start from scratch, and I’m going to look inside myself to see what I find.” This is the difference.


Q. Do you think drugs can be at all beneficial?

R. I think that anything, anything will give you a glimpse, even sex. I don’t think that a person, that say virginity has any value until you lose it. The same with a million dollars or a nickel. We don’t know the value of it until we lose it. We don’t know the value of money until it’s gone. You have to have it and lose it, then you’ll know what money it. You have to have virtue and energy and lose it, and then you’ll know what they’re worth.


Now, by the same token, you don’t do like Rasputin and keep on losing it, just to show, to find out repeatedly what the value is. Because pretty soon you lose the whole value of the system of evaluation, and you become mentally incompetent to judge anything after awhile, if you indulge in anything too much. So consequently I do think that a little bit of acid gives you insight but it is really a grabber And I know that there are quite a few people that have been taking acid [that have taken acid] and nearly all of you will agree that you were conscious of an entity, an intelligence that was behind the trip

let them take that trip. I took acid, that’s the reason I know what I’m talking about. I only took it once, and I was two weeks recovering from it

There was a fellow there who sold it to me and he was looking after me. And I kept saying to him, I said, “Who’s the pimp running this whorehouse?” I knew that someone was taking my energy. Something – not me, not just the nervous system, just the bloodstream. Some intelligence was projecting a picture show, a very beautiful picture show. And I was watching it. I was dead almost. My body disappeared, the room disappeared. The only thing I saw was animated flowers, coming up from what seemed to be my spine, my lower spine. It was like a lily, it just coming up, and each leaf was composed of an infinitesimal number of lines, which were electronic, vibrating, to a point where I couldn’t hardly stand it. Now this was he trip.


And I found that – it was green, predominately green. And as I started to come out of it, I’m looking at something green on the couch, and it turns out to be a green hair in the tail of a pussycat. [laughter] But regardless, that energy came from me. Because for two weeks I couldn’t get it back. And someone took me and showed me a picture show for my energy.

So this is what happens. Nothing is for nothing. If you go to the picture show you pay. So how many trips are you good for, before you burn out? I was fifty years of age when I took it, so maybe you guys wore? out? more quickly than me. But that was enough from me for one lifetime.


Incidentally, the reason I took it, I thought it would – I had read this thing by Leary and he talked about turning on and dropping out and all this stuff. And I thought, “Well maybe there is; maybe there’s a chemical that will project me back into the experience, we’ll see.” It didn’t. I’ll say this, that I did go through the death experience, but I didn’t receive any illumination. I was quite convinced that I was dead. In fact, even when I came back I still thought I was dead. I didn’t think I’d ever be able to think in the same state of mind that I had before. I had that conviction, that I’d never be the same. complete? death. So in that respect it’s similar to death. But it’s not advisable until you get the strength to carry that type of load. It takes a lot of strength to fight your way back – mentally, not physically.

Yes, this lady back hrere.


Q. .. When you’re talking about … the person who realizes there are two people …

R. What’s next?

Q. Yes

R. Finding the singularity. Now it isn’t that there are two entities, it’s just that you’re dichotomizing yourself. There’s not two people, it just appears to be. In other words I maintain that – I gave a lecture here six months or a year ago Psychology of the Observer [ << date clue, see Notes, time is 11:13 ] in which I brought out that the observer is the real person. The view is not the viewer. And if you’re watching a dichotomy, then neither one of those is you. The you is what’s watching.


there are 5 or 6 voices that are very easy to identify

and we watch them fighting

Another voice will talk and say, “Hey, you’re going to kill yourself.”

think that that’s an angel whispering

[another tape recorder changes tapes]

two voices that have been reinforced over the tears by being rewarded

you think you’ve found your real self

that’s all it is, an umpire But the person on a spiritual path, he thinks that as soon as he recognizes the umpire that he is now in charge. He isn’t. He [eventually] gets beyond being in charge

the real man is the final observer, the one that is finally aware. H?e goes back and he looks inside of himself


light that comes out of a camera [projector]. You have to go back in.

van der Leeuw brings this out

an object in the retina it may be upside down, meaning that the mind projects it as it should be

we project a universe to suit ourselves. And when physicists and philosophers became aware of this, they saw the possibility of the mind creating the whole universe

Chilton-Pearce recreate that pattern belief in death


you keep looking behind

until ultimately you become one with awareness. That is, there isn’t two. You don’t become one with anything, you become awareness. And at the moment you become awareness, that’s when you’re there.


Q. energy

R. Any time that you disrupt an ego there’s an enormous amount of energy.

I watched this happen, and I’m thinking of one specific person who is related to me.

Threw the cigarette down on the church steps, went in and beat the head on the floor and asked for salvation and got salvation. And the whole thing was removed almost immediately

blame was placed on Jesus

it was ecstasy

whatever method used is good. Whatever method. Just don’t pray to me; I don’t want to get involved. [laughter] Blame it on Jesus.

Q. I wanted to ask

R. Well this is before you ever see your egos

a person grows up and he batters about inside the sardine can

he learns to get along

And it’s only when he encounters something that he can’t have, that his other egos are shaken up.

he may fall in love

his ego starts to shake and he becomes unhappy, and h evaluates why he’s unhappy

if you don’t want to wait for catastrophe

go back to early childhood

they had a foolish pattern

your life is like a roll of film


right up to the present time


these egos drop

series of fights

all your friends say you’re wrong

some sort of paranoia building up

tail of a rocket

the rest crumbles



R. It’s automatic

you see it, and when you see it you’ve had enough of it

one of the things we do in childhood

they learn to the, because that’s their only weapon

if that hate melts

isn’t necessary any longer

it’s the dropping of egos that causes these exaltations

satori or the wow experience

cosmic consciousness experience


you’ll see the universe as perfect

I’m talking about a specific quality that is erroneous


whole Freudian structure is kind of loose

if we have an insatiable sexual drive


that’s our destiny

I’m dealing with an animal

you’re better off dead

gut with hair on each end

bringing in more taxpayers


sometimes it’s a fear

by facing it

that’s not you being motivated

milk from thorns

using this energy then

it only takes once a year to reproduce

they’re all necessary

if we didn’t have the ego to eat we wouldn’t survive

all these robots e programmed to go after the food

same way with sex

pride themselves in having no pride

filthy clothes

it’s better to have pride than pinworms

even the survival ego

you have to die

especially when he thinks

but when this happens, you’ll believe you’re dying

release of ego, energy to bring ou back

you give up the ego of spiritual immortality

this is all fiction until it’s proven

you give up all your preconceptions


the organism has to be strengthened


R. I think you should do things to keep yourself healthy

yoga exercises

I quit eating meat

make myself a laboratory and see what happens

in the final analysis it doesn’t matter what you eat

I didn’t eat meat for 10 years

nothing is evil in itself

it’s good to have a discipline

macrobiotic diet may damage some

China many generations who never saw meat

Americans many generations meat eaters

no diet is spiritual in itself

each case is different

File 3