1993-0330-NC-State-University-Raleigh-March

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Title	1993-0330-NC-State-University-Raleigh-March
Recorded date	March 30, 1993
Location	NC State University, Raleigh
Number of tapes	2 cassettes: @1 = 32 min and 32 min. #2 = 32 min and 19 min.
Other recorders audible?
Alternate versions exist?
Source	SN and ripped video
No. of MP3 files	5 mp3 files, file "0" in introduction. Ripped video is in 3 mp3files.
Total time
Transcription status	Auto-AI Nov 19, 2025
Link to distribution copy	http://distribution.direct-mind.org/ (need password)
Link to PDF	http://distribution.direct-mind.org/ Or try http://selfdefinition.org/rose/
Published in what book?
Published on which website?
Remarks	Lecture of questions for 45 min.
Audio quality	High quality, but only the right channel is used.
Identifiable voices	Augie Turak, George Buehler.
URL at direct-mind.org	https://www.direct-mind.org/index.php/1993-0330-NC-State-University-Raleigh-March
	For access to this wiki or the audio files please send an email to: editors@direct-mind.org
Revision timestamp	20260101234757

To Do

Notes

Have Video. Have audio mp3 and extract from video. <

Auto-AI at Rev.Com was done with the "sn" audio files on Nov 19, 2025 and pasted to the wiki Jan 1, 2026..

See long email chain January 2012: RE: RR videos on VHS tapes. "Thu, Jan 12, 2012, 6:58 PM, to me. Steve, I mailed a box of VHS tapes today.

See file lists at: https://audio.direct-mind.org/file-lists/

Video collection in general: Have DVDs ripped to VOB and/or VHS ripped to MP4. Need to verify collection. Have on Terastation (backup server) and Dropbox. Plus the originals in a plastic box.

Transcription

File sn0-Intro

File number “0” – 7 minute introduction by George Buehler placed in separate file

George B.

sn0-00:03

I heard a lecture by Mr. August Turak, who was a businessman who came to speak to the university scholars, and he told us some amazing stories. He told us about an old man in West Virginia who through an unrelenting drive to find the truth and a lifetime of seeking, had found the mystical experience that all religious traditions recognize the experience of enlightenment, a union with the absolute and experience in realization of the ultimate reality. Now, I was fascinated by this. I had heard of Zen and of enlightened people, but they were always seemed remote and distant. Zen masters were people who lived in some country far away and died a long time ago.

sn0-00:58

And this was the first time I'd heard about someone who said he was enlightened and who offered the possibility that an individual could with their own efforts, using their own common sense and own intuition, come to a realization of what was ultimately real. And he was alive and available so I could go and check him out, which is what I did. I got to know Augie and eventually went up with him to West Virginia to meet Mr. Rose. I'm not quite sure what I expected from that meeting, but the man I found was someone who was remarkable and outside and beyond all of my expectations, there are many traits I could mention about Mr. Rose to describe him, his intelligence, his tremendous sense of humor, his totally unassuming just folks' attitude and his friendliness. But the trait I think, which characterizes most of all and has characterized him through his whole life, is relentless perseverance. Mr. Rose is a man who has spent his whole life in one long, unrelenting, unwavering search for the truth. His own search began when he was 12, when he joined the St. Fidelis Capuchin Monastery in Pennsylvania. He spent five years there studying under the priests, hoping that he could get closer to the men who at the time seemed to know the most about God. He eventually became disillusioned with the priests, though when he found that they had no privileged knowledge or revelation about what was real. All they had was faith.

sn0-02:48

He moved on, went to college to study physics and chemistry, hoping that an objective and rational study of the physical universe could give him some answers. But he eventually became disappointed with that too, and found that science can only categorize, but it can't explain why things are or how they came to be. Thus, he continued slogging his way through every avenue of study that might answer his questions. He studied spiritualism yoga, esoteric philosophy. He traveled across the country checking out every system or movement that held out some promise of wisdom that went beyond what we normally have. Finally, after years of intense questing, he had a spontaneous breakthrough, which he refers to as his experience, which he says, answered all his questions. The relentless perseverance that carried Mr. Rose through his own quest has turned around now and has come back in his teaching when Mr. Rose was slogging through all of the teachings, all the books, all the libraries he could find, and frustrated with the limits of language and with the impersonators, the hucksters, the people who deceived him in his own search for the truth. In all of that frustration, Mr. Rose made the promise to himself that if he ever found anything of value, he would do everything he could to make it available to others and make it available for free. And he's done that, that same relentless perseverance. He now pours into his teaching, trying to pass on what he found to other people.

sn0-04:41

He's the one man I found that lives totally for his philosophy. He's no ties to anything else as far as I can see. He has no use for money. He lives a very, what anyone would consider a very humble lifestyle in the same farmhouse. He grew up in West Virginia. He has no use for popularity. He's stuck by his opinions in his ways, in all times, no matter what the popular beliefs and popular buzzwords were. He's lived totally for passing on what he found in one of his books. His first book, the Albigen Papers. Mr. Rose said There is no religion greater than human friendship, and it's in his friendship. I think that he's done the most to pass on what he's found to other people. He's written a number of books, five books, all pecked out on his little Underwood typewriter, but it's mostly through his personal contact with people through his lectures and talking with anybody who has a sincere interest that Mr. Rose has helped to pass on what he's found. I've had the privilege of spending the past two summers living on Mr. Rose's farm. He's opened up his own family farm to people to come and live and work and try to find something on their own. And that has been for me, the chance and the opportunity to work with Mr. Rose to learn his philosophy from him. It's been one of the greatest experiences in my life. So please join me in welcoming Mr. Richard Rose. That guy can embarrass you. I never sounded so good.

File sn1

Time: 25 minutes. Begins “Lecture of Questions”.

Speaker 1

sn1-00:04

That guy can embarrass you. I never sounded so good. Well, I've got a little thing prepared here that's similar to the zen method of not preaching, but questioning and can you hear me in the back? Yes, can you? Okay, so I'll go on with that and then have the paper prepared here, and then after that we'll get down to questions and answers and anything you want to talk about, discuss, and I begin with the problem. Every seeker, every philosophic secret runs into, and that is the invalid things we have to work with books and beliefs and that sort of thing. So I start here with a series of questions. What do you know for sure?

sn1-01:46

Does a man own a house or does the house own him? Does a man have power or is he overpowered a predator or a victim or both? Does a man enjoy or is he consumed? Does a man really reason or is he so programmed? Can a man learn that which he really wishes to by himself alone? Can a man become and of course we know what becoming is. How shall he know what he should become? Why build anthill before knowing what an ant is? We going to substitute the word anthill for house. See, why do we build conceptual tires of babo about human thinking before we know that which is thought or that which thought is now an instance of that is psychology.

sn1-03:02

How can we dare to define thought before knowing the source or cause of all thought or the essence of thought? Where is our wisdom in the search in psychology? If we know nothing about thought, when we describe bouncing, do you describe the striking object or that which is struck is thought. The process of bouncing or the object struck everything struck reacts with an opposite equal force. Can you start thinking? Can you stop thinking? Try it. Try it. Is thought something received or something projected, meaning all thoughts is thought a sort of somatic emanation. In other words, we're trying to get to the substance of thought. Do we think or are we caused or forced to think? How much of our thinking do we really choose before we think is negative thinking as commonly discussed, negative demand or negative to nature?

sn1-04:23

A lot of people complain about negativity and it may be negative to nature. Does the brain generate thought like a radio generates a message come coming from its speaker? Is thought limited to the brain? Is thought even in the brain when a tree bends over, does it create wind by waving its branches? What are you doing for certain and what is done to you? We cannot see the wind. What is telepathy? Does thought travel beyond the head? Does only the head think what is the vehicle for thought travel? Does the body manufacture thoughts or does the body only serve as a conduit? Where in the body or thoughts received during telepathy, where are they sent? Do chemicals such as serotonin and other neurotransmitters create thought or do they merely facilitate the penetration into our consciousness of strictly sensory data?

sn1-05:44

Where will the answer to this question lead us. Multidimensional contacts, telepathy, communication with the dead. We try that sometimes. How many full hours do we spend analyzing our thought processes? We take it for granted. We continue to babble. Is it important to so observe our reactions? Are we only a body? A lot of people say that in what part of that body is a seed of life? We can cut off an arm, a leg, or cut out and replace lungs, heart, kidneys, and still live. We can have our nervous system severed at the neck with paralysis except in the head and still live and think we can remain unconscious for years while the body continues to live. Noting that a person who is brain dead according to medical instruments can continue to live, breathe in a time, recover and function consciously. Do we think or do we imagine we think is our thinking automatic?

sn1-06:57

Do not our thoughts come before we have time to replace them? Meaning do we really have a choice about we're thinking when we decide to search for the source of thought, why do we become mentally weary or find our thoughts? Becoming able to find objective or describable distractions, but unable to describe name or systematize the progression, enigmas or duration of thought processes. If man is man only a blob of protoplasm, which is programmed to react according to a schedule, or is he a free agent? Condition reflexes our thoughts. Likewise, only reflexes from programmed or calculated stimuli. Who programmed? Who stimulated? Everybody is programmed from childhood up. Who stimulates that? What is thought again? Can we observe our thoughts? If we observe our thoughts? Who is looking? When we observe our thoughts? Are we not thinking about thinking? Is such a thinker? Someone who dreams of yesterday thinking that he watches a dreamer or is he a detached watcher of past and present thoughts? Who is awake and aware of the mechanicalness of man?

sn1-08:30

What are we an animated body and a suppressed, stagnated soul? Do we have a mind? Are we mind stuffed? Are we programmed a programmed body and mind? These arguments are all you're acquainted with them. These are theories. Do we actually know that which we are doing? If so, why do we repeatedly regret things that we do? Does a metazoan insect animal or man know why it reproduces? Do the trees create wind by waving their branches or is it always moved by an external force? Does a person seduce another or are both seduced? What does a man do besides fertilize? Are you a hero or a victim?

sn1-09:42

Are you loved or are you consumed? Do you have possessions or are you possessed by them, which is more evidential and apparent to you? Your divinity or your animal appearance? If we wish to plan our lives, do we not need to consider while planning that it may all be planned and that we have no choice? How do we plan around that possibility? Must we not define our limitations? When we define our limitations, do we automatically need to define ourself? Do we discover more accurately the nature of ourself? How much of human action is fated? Predestined is the knowledge of factors of any value in the face of possible predestination. What do you know? For sure? Do you believe more than you really know? Is all of our reality merely a collective belief? A paradigm? I picked that one up from Chilton Pierce. I dunno if you've heard of him In science, a mental feat created by mankind is science and that mental feat created by mankind or is it only a human discovery of a mental set? Very important to know this or is scientific reality only a progression of events planned and expedited by a mentality of cosmic or spiritual proportions which utilize the mentality, egos and energy of humans. Now, read that again. It's a little stiff, is scientific reality only a progression of events planned and expedited by a mentality of cosmic or spiritual proportions, meaning God, which utilize the mentality, egos and energy of us humans?

sn1-11:49

What is life? What is death? Neither one are defined is death. Three flat readings on an E, k, G? Are these items ever properly defined except in terms of each other? If you're dead, you're not living. If you're living, you're not dead. Can theological facts be established by voting? Seems like we tried a lot. Is Mary the mother of God or is humanity the mother of God or neither is God determined by victorious armies? It seems so is virtue established by psychological edict, by ecclesiastical vote, or by the requisites of our ultimate essence? What is sin?

sn1-12:44

Is sin an offense against yourself? An offense against your fellow man? An offense against God is an offense against God recognized by divine outcry, earthquake or cosmic catastrophe. Is it a sin to eat meat? Are the animals our brothers, are they possessed of intelligence and soul? Do animals sin when they eat other animals or are such sinning animals? Pardon? For keeping ecology in balance? Is it wrong to kill except for food is if so, do we do wrong by not eating the people we kill? My mind goes back to Dahmer of Wisconsin or wherever he was from. He tried to do it. Who is knowledgeable about good? The item goodness is good that which we desire or that which is in itself good. What is the condition of being in itself good? Is evil the child of good or is it a twin?

sn1-14:03

If a man drives a horse through a plate glass window, should the man be prosecuted or the horse? If a man steals defeat his children, should we prosecute the man or that which drove him? The children? If a man rapes a girl, should we prosecute A the man, the girl who tempted him C, his ancestors for his genetic inheritance or glandular inclination the force that designed mankind. What is equality? Was Samson equal to Delilah? Is a baby equal to a dying man? Are you only half of a plan by virtue of not possessing both sexes? Is peace of mind more important than global peace or herd peace? It's good to think about that. Is peace of mind more important than global peace or herd peace? Who or what are you again? Do we know? Are you only a body? I've heard people say that a bunch of condition reflexes, bundles of condition, reflexes are you rather a complex organism, a cell colony, a nature oriented bundle of conditioned reflexes? Is the brain a monitoring station designed for the organisms indefinite survival or is our body program for death? We've got a death gene somewhere following procreation like the corn and the wheat is all religion and philosophy merely rationalization emanating from that computer to answer constant cellular awareness of death.

sn1-16:05

We work in fear of death and we work desperately trying to live a little longer or stay around a little longer. The germ falls from the dying tassel to healthy corn silks or is the universal belief in life after death an intuitive reading from that computer reading not completely translatable into computer symbols which are limited? Is there a soul? Did it exist before the body or must it be developed, grown and evolved? We've got to think about that once in a while or is it prove the following mind meaning define it as other than somatic awareness? Subconscious mind, ego, it super ego chakra, kundalini, tizra til, astral, etheric, causal, desire ro halo, ectoplasm, spiritual air conscience, spiritual nectar. Knees are freely used to describe body capabilities. Boy, we should flatter ourself. What is time? Does time pass or is it only you who passes?

sn1-17:30

Is space time a stable metrics? While we are only transient visitors? How much of life is a mirage? Literally, there is a possibility that we don't see these things in their true form. There's been a lot of philosophy written about that in do we see this world infallibly or obliquely? Are the senses infallible? Can you see or hear or feel or smell or taste? Time is time only a relative conceptualization. What is the reality of time? Does the ant or amoeba interpret duration the same as a man or does its time pass more swiftly? In other words, you see a flea or a small insect that only lives a few days or such and we can't help but stop and wonder, did he lead a complete life? He only lived a few minutes, but maybe he lived for 60 years in his reckoning. What is duration? What does a lifetime feel like? Does it feel differently to a child and to an old person?

sn1-18:56

I remember one time I was given a talk in Akron, Ohio and a university there in acronym. We were talking about cancer and an abortion, and I made the statement that it is better to let an old man die than to kill a baby. The baby had no chance and the father, one of the men in our group stood up and said, I can't stand to hear any more of that, and he stomped out, but I still stand by it. The baby's more important than I am. What is the relation of memory to time? Do we remember a duration or measure it if we have no clock on hand? Do we remember how long a pain lasted? When the pain occurred a year ago? How about the pain a woman has when she has childbirth? Would women become pregnant as often if they remembered the duration intensity of the pain of childbirth? Do we have a real sense of time when we hear a clock ticking? Do we then know what a second is or what stretch of consciousness exists for others in that second?

sn1-20:20

Do the wings of the hummingbird move rapidly or slow to the gauging of the hummingbird to the time sense of the fruit fly? Is his life long or short? It is a sense of duration or passing time proportional to the mass of the entity that experiences, in other words, is the passing of time here. It depends somewhat upon our relation to the sun and that sort of thing, but what effect would this have on the life realization, the duration of the life of a planet, perhaps out and outer space? Is time the same all over the universe? Does time exist other than the fascination which seems to be brief or longer in duration? If the sun is our ultimate clock of earth rotation as measurement, what is our measurement of time after the death of our senses?

sn1-21:29

When you die, the light might go out. You might not see this on. How are you going to figure how long you've been dead? Is time an illusion that prevents us from experience of self that has no motion? Have you ever heard a clock ticking in a delirium? If the mind can be distorted in a delirium or in an LSD trip, does the mind ever understand the true feeling of a second? What is nostalgia? Is it the soul's view of previous feeling? What is space? Is space interdependent with time? Are they not measured by each other? The light year and so on? Time is determined by spatial phenomena, rotation, duration.

sn1-22:26

Do space and time exist in all except in reference to us? What is the understanding by insects of the distance to the sun and the moon? Do we have a true picture of nature? When we appreciate nature as being beautiful is such an appreciation of life or death? Life or death? The blossoms are beautiful and even the dead leaves are beautiful in autumn. Have you ever watched the war that goes on in a drop of water or in a cancerous tissue? How many protozoans are required to sustain the world's meta zones? Can they be counted? How many [protozoa] are eaten alive every second? How many microscopic meta zones are eaten each day by larger meta zones? Is death painless for these beings? Do they scream? How many small meta zones are need to feed one worm for a day or one insect? How many worms or insects die every minute to feed the birds?

sn1-23:43

How many worms or insects are needed to feed a pair of birds and there are fledglings every day? How many worms or insects are needed for one's hen's? Egg? How many worms does the chicken have to eat before you make an egg? Is this summer we hear the hum of many insects? Is this hum beautiful orchestral or a bedlam of screaming? We don't know. Are the songs of birds more than just mating noises or are not trees more attractive than autumn when dying, which is the true destiny of all beings? A growth individual eminence or a means of food, energy, or something like that for higher beings, meaning predators? Gods are not, this is what I labeled a theological section of inspection. Should self definition have priority over concerns for health, for instance, in all spiritual work, esoteric worth, I.

File sn2

Time: 32 minutes.

sn2-00:00

R: Definition first you don't. It is silly to go out and try to work miracles. Who's performing the miracles? So everybody has to look inside themselves. That's what the meditations are for and that sort of thing is the idea of personal immortality. Before such an idea has been proven by experiencing immortality any more than an egotistical idea. What are the mechanics of divine healing? Should the search for God have precedence over using an unidentified divinity as a healing utility? In other words, we don't care much to him. Don get sick. I mean they start going to church and praying for get rid of our disease. See, not having paid too much attention before the disease came is God a gigantic just alt?

sn2-00:54

Why are we here? Are we accidents of evolution? Animals that accidentally evolved upon a planet that accidentally evolved? The chances of accidental evolution seem unlikely in view of the complexities of protoplasm, such as the ability of the cell to produce milli voltage components and to possess memory. Can we say all this came by an immediate or instantaneous teleological prompting, which had to take thousands of years to develop over the million years needed to evolve less specialized cells similar to plant cells. How did new road transmitters evolve? I think we've all heard of those. Were we created by skillful biochemists? Stop and think a minute. Are we an accident all accident or were absolute plan blueprinted land and by experts?

sn2-01:57

How did the neurotransmitters evolve? Is life a dream or an illusion that's good to think about for a long time? If so, is it not very detailed? A very detailed and consistent dream showing few variations seeming to strictly adhere to a blueprint. We're talking about dreams. Is man manufacturing this blueprint by setting up a rough paradigm and creating details such as brain chemistry as he goes along. If so, has man lost control of his creation? If he cannot find an alternate for disease and death, what are the odds for an accidental synthesis of two ketone enzymes? You know the fellow came out in a little book here a long time ago and decided all life on earth began by two keto enzymes in the scum where the earth met the ocean, and those two ketone enzymes got together and copulate and the result was complex entities began to swarm all over us.

sn2-03:14

In case you want to know the meaning of the ketone enzymes, it's co plus two hydrocarbon radicals. These are supposed to be miraculous little devils. It has been suggested that life began by the Synthes of these two ketone enzymes. Now of course, where'd the ketone enzymes come from? Who made 'em? How did they, I can see where a couple of 'em might stagger together along the shore, but in great quantities enough to cause diseases and that sort of thing or to cause bodies to form. Is there a body manufactured force, an odile grill, Elan vial or quantum energy capable of powerful and magical power, transferable and projectable?

sn2-04:17

There are two windows states of mind which are not consistent with each other. They're the daytime view and the nighttime view, the latter with its dreams and horizontal speculations upon weakening from a strange field of thought and threatens convictions of the daytime. How do we balance this force? In other words, the accepted reality of daytime, but the terrible thoughts sometimes that may be what we dreamed about was true or there's a message in there. What bearing do these often morbid night states of mind have on violent acts? Is there any value in speculating on the genesis of biological or human life? Weighing the value and importance of slow evolvement against a possible perfect instantaneous creation and weighing the suffering and dying against perfect or unchanging immortality? This is what we're perpetually wrestling with, settling that are ecologists, possibly trying to thwart the ordained directions of the engineer who designed the evolution of life, sanity and syphilis? Are they both decided by approval via democratic voting?

sn2-05:37

If man did not cause himself, then that which caused him is invisible, meaning not apparent in this dimension. I suppose it's been created by somebody else, but that's somebody else's invisible hard to put the finger on. What reason would a superior engineer have for creating a life is seen on earth, meaning all flora and fauna? How rational are some of the reasons given for the acceptance of the creator concept and a set of morals presumed to gain tolerance from that creator? Of course, a set of morals we don't pay attention to. What is talk, why is talk or different perspectives necessary? What causes different perspectives? What liabilities are incurred with unavoidable states of mind? I what is a state of mind?

sn2-06:35

This is something we should all think about. We use those words, but there's such a thing called a state of mind. Sometimes it drives people out to do crazy things or perspectives rooted in valid basis and definitions or in undefinable feelings which may be as valid or meaningful as definitions. We can't scientifically define every word. Does a given color cause the same reaction in all people? Why do some perfumes enc chant one person and cause nausea in another? What is beauty? How do perspectives which are influenced by feelings affect science? Do they help or hinder? Can a scientist totally rule feelings out of judgment? Did the scientists of Columbus time feel that the earth was flat or know that the earth was flat?

sn2-07:31

What is wisdom? Is it foolishness or wasted effort unless it is restricted to objective or materialistic values? And of course this is the excuse for the founding of communism is all wisdom. Unbiased is a wise man, just one who gets along with his fellow man is wisdom. Just adaptation symbiosis or a blending with others to a point of losing your personal identity. That's what everybody liked to have. Everybody else do lose their identity. Is silence a trademark of wisdom even if silence is caused by cowardice? Who or what is the authority in regard to human essence or nature? In other words, who really knows what's going on there?

sn2-08:22

Does a person love or is he incapable of loving? Does not a person desire to be loved while pretending to love others? Does a tick love the host or the blood of the host is love of every kind, programmed and projected onto us that we have no choice? We're going to go like the goats regardless. Is there only one dimension? Do not the possibility of multiple dimensions weaken our significance and our pretended potential for controlling our environment. In other words, if we got multiple dimensions, we're busy with just this one dimension, it's going to be rough. What is God? What are his dimensions? What is a soul? I'm not doing this to ridicule the name of God, but I'm just saying we are ego egotistical when we start thinking we can measure it and think our measurements are superior to guy next door. See, what is a soul? Are these just aberrated ideas? Why do people use the word like God or soul without going to some effort to define them? They throw them around. Why don't they spend a little time looking for it? What is an idea? Is there a thinking self or only an awareness that witnesses reactions and may possibly witness a pseudo self or ego?

sn2-09:57

Can a man have spiritual or essence clarity and be psychologically confused? They used to have some people like that in Russia. They called them stirs, I think it was, but they were kids that were idiots and they would go talk to them to get like fortune tellers. The wisdom had come out of the mouth, the idiots you see? So a man can have a spiritual essence and still be psychologically confused. Are we an individual or a conglomerate of several selves? As this incident is possible by virtue of you're the product of two people, mother and father, and you may pick up some from each one. So be they could be a conglomerate of different parts of themselves if there is such a conglomerate. How is the real self isolated? Here we just now isolate the real self by taking the position of internal questioner, external questioner is thought a possession or an obsession? What is the relationship between thoughts and glands? Some thoughts arouse people, so it must have a connection with the glands. See, what is sanity or insanity is sanity only somatic healthiness?

sn2-11:28

I've been looking for a hard, better definition. Are unpopular people insane or outside the normal curve? Do we still have the normal curve? Incidentally, we held onto that for a while. Could sanity ever mean that state of mind with perfect understanding of all problems, a state of mind from which the altering lens of ego has been removed from mental vision or perception? Would such a version of sanity imply the need of perfected logic or perfected intuition? Well, regardless, why don't we go for perfected intuition? How does one arrive at it is thought, a synaptic reaction to an electrical stimulus?

sn2-12:11

If we cannot willfully think, do we ever really make decisions? Now, there is this quite an argument that we're not thinking, we're just reacting. So how can we get ego ego up enough to say, we made a decision. Is it possible that only the people who realize that they cannot enforce decisions are the ones that eventually may find ways and means to make things happen? I'd like for you to remember that if you can, because this is the door to higher thinking. If we think about thought is thought, then objective and separate from the thinking self is thought an entity or a emanation of sorts, an emanation being a protoplasm reaction. Can sanity be gauged by logic? Is behavior considered normal by virtue of percentages of incidents? That's how we rule everything. Everything's permissible or sane by virtue of the numbers of times that it happens.

sn2-13:23

See, it is all such normal behavior, always logically excusable. Is sanity a way of measuring the skill of survival or is sanity also involved in a skill of checking factors such as motivation, correct reasons for living, quality, control of morality, and the control evaluation of environmental factors? Would our behavior be the same if we discovered by logical or even common sense means that our environment was greater or less than we previously believed it to be? In other words, more of a mind dimension. The sames bird cannot outwit the rifle much less higher technology by poisoning. In other words, would we behave the same way if we discovered beyond speculation that there was no life after death? Would we behave the same way or do we all keep plugging with hope or that our environment included other perhaps endless dimensions?

sn2-14:36

How would we react to the incontrovertible discovery of an inescapable mortality immortality? We might run into this someday when we discover everything that there's an inescapable, you're not going to hell, you might go to hell, but you're going to be immortal. You might go to heaven and maybe there is no heaven, but regardless, one thing maybe we may have that fact, we worry about it, but it's possible everybody will be immortal. That's just searching for reason. Are we not caught somewhere between and is not this materialism of a bit of fence writing? It says on one hand we can accept only that which we see while refusing to look or see new factors not immediately accessible to our senses or new truths which would give new definitions to life and new meaning to existence. Now I'm referring to an incident that can happen to some people where they can die while living. This is a secret to die in return and when you die in return, you have no doubts that there is another dimension how long you'll get to stay there that isn't settled, but it sure. Convincing psychiatry contains opinions rather than pure scientific findings. Is psychology becoming a cult? Does psychology or psychotherapy ruled by edict rather than by reasons? I've been doing a lot of research in a lot of this modern psychology. Incidentally, is there any science in the modus operandi of these current mental therapies?

sn2-16:30

Is it safe to allow psychologists to monitor our lives if they're only cognizant of body survival run into the possibility of a great percentage of them not believing themselves in life after death, they would progress. Program us only for that, helping the body to survive as long as possible. Are psychologists who work in advertising and promotion of boon to mankind, or are they manipulators without proper respect for the victims of sulfur spurious interests? Can the psychiatrist produce sanity in the person if he has not adequately defined sanity? I am yet to see the man who's defined sanity outside of some sort of gauging the average way people behave in clusters. If he divines sanity, should he the psychiatrist not be required to bring sanity to every patient who is in any degree insane? Why don't they cure 'em? What does behaviorism prove? Why do the tracks made by? What do the tracks of an animal proof? It used to be people read them to get messages from God or something. Do they tell you about the essence or purpose of that animal?

sn2-17:51

Does a normal curve define normality and morality? If 51% of the people became killers, would that make killing normal? Possibly 51 or 75% of a lot of people in an army and attacking army are killers. And what effect does that have on their normality? Can we study the mind by ignoring brain chemistry and behavioristic testing? I got to here introspection. Structureless, is it more important than what man is to know what a man is thinking or capable of doing than it is to know who it is that is thinking or doing and what is thought?

sn2-18:44

Are the conclusions reached by introspective thinking corroborated by sciences such as brain chemistry and the statistics of behaviorism? Does not introspection take in behavior should the behaviorists not take into consideration or at least not ignore the nature of metal behavior and the multiple unseen causes of behavior such as the meaning of life, which is the origin of thought and the purpose for the existence of individuals? We never go into the thing and say, why are we here? Why should we be here? Unless the thoughts of first causes and the purpose of mankind is understood, fatalism would be as good a theory as any other which would make behavioristic control efforts observed is the futon and intelligent messenger of God. Now, I don't know how many you've read. I think it's Fritz Copper or someone that wrote about the story of the photon with its almost individual intelligence. Is the photon a distraction being that dazzle the human eyes so that he cannot see the realities find of found an introspection? I'm trying to say, what does he really do? Will you ever be free and at the same time, be aware, I got another paper. I don't want to read it unless it's being in relation to questions, but you heard me talk a good bit about psychology and I've done quite a bit of reading, quite a bit of research into where psychology started and that sort of thing, and I think we slipped away from the main purpose of psychology. And does anybody have anything they wish to offer or any questions? I know it's hard to answer find. Yeah, what was the

Speaker 2

sn2-21:20

Main point of psychology and where is it drawn now?

Speaker 1

sn2-21:23

Just what

Speaker 2

sn2-21:27

Was the main point of psychology and where has it gone now that you just mentioned?

Speaker 1

sn2-21:31

Well, psychology was supposed to be the science of the psyche and meaning the spirit degenerated immediately into the science of the body and ignoring the psyche or the spirit. So then, because the simple fact is much easier to approve of or observe somatic action than it would be to try to examine mental action. See, so this is where they jumped the fence to begin with. Then there was a whole scheme set up to evaluate people, and I can't see, there was no proof, no scientific proof ever came from it. And today, if you get, I'm acquainted with some psychological classes that go on in the country today, and they're actually advocating animal behavior, what I consider animal behavior. I don, I think that we surely developed beyond the animal kingdom, and I can't see any point in going back to it and breeding like goats in the public. In public or to letting our children be molested and having it considered education. I'm not talking from fiction, I'm talking about from stuff I know about or abusing our children. The name of psychology. What school? Huh? What schools are you talking about? Which? What schools are you talking about when you're referring to that? Which school? Yeah, or

Speaker 3

sn2-23:21

School of thought.

Speaker 1

sn2-23:25

Well, I have documents where I'm from West Virginia now this came out in West Virginia. It was also a lawsuit in Pennsylvania. They were 4-year-old children were being shown the equivalent of vulgar pictures so that they could be educated in what the opposite sexes organs look like. I have this stuff in black and white. I sued the school board.

Speaker 3

sn2-23:56

Oh, so I thought you were implying that it was like a university that was promoting some

Speaker 1

sn2-24:04

Oh, they do. Oh, they do. They do. That's what I'm asking. Not I know. I have a friend that's here tonight that worked in a psychology as a psychologist in a semi menal institution, sort of handicapped children anywhere from 12 to 20 years of age, and they were encouraged to masturbate. In the old days, if a person was sickly and stuff and he was masturbating, the doctors would say, Hey to the parents, Hey, you stop that kid. We have a little more strength. He'll get over his sickness, whatever it is, a little better. See? But the idea is, the idea is that almost communistic, it seems that there's a direct aim or attempt to weaken the moral fiber of the children.

Speaker 2

sn2-25:10

What does this have to do with communism,

Speaker 1

sn2-25:12

Huh? Well, I don't say, I don't know what the communists do, but see, we used to blame almost everything on invasion by communistic ideas and they were considered immoral. The psychological system to me is Im more immoral than any political system that ever threatened us. That's what I'm trying to get across to you. I

Speaker 2

sn2-25:38

Don't recall if Marx ever said anything about masturbation.

Speaker 1

sn2-25:41

Huh? I didn't say he did in Karl Marx. I didn't say he did.

Speaker 2

sn2-25:47

So what do you mean by communist?

Speaker 1

sn2-25:50

I didn't say anything about communists. What do I mean by I never defined it tonight?

Speaker 2

sn2-25:57

I guess I'm not understanding what you're saying.

Speaker 1

sn2-25:59

Huh? How do you define morality? Morality. Well, don't think, I think we have an understanding of what morality is. Maybe it's different. Maybe they're trying to change it, but the conception from which morality stemmed that we were trying when we had children, we were trying to keep them as clean and healthy as we could so they wouldn't grow up to be half breeds are idiots. See, and there is a,

Speaker 2

sn2-26:39

What's a half breed?

Speaker 1

sn2-26:43

50%. What do you ask me these questions for? You want to measure the half breed. You

Speaker 2

sn2-26:51

Used the term half breed, and I don't know what you mean by that.

Speaker 1

sn2-26:54

Well, it's 50% of what

Speaker 2

sn2-26:57

It sounded to me.

Speaker 1

sn2-26:58

50% of anything.

Speaker 2

sn2-27:01

Am I in correct proceeding that you just approved of half three.

Speaker 1

sn2-27:08

You're not making any sense to me. Let's have some questions from somebody else. Yeah. Can you describe the cataclysmic spiritual experience that you had at age 30? What? Can you describe the

Speaker 2

sn2-27:20

Cataclysmic spiritual experience that you had at age 30 that it kind of

Speaker 1

sn2-27:25

Said to you, somebody wrote it down. Did they? Yeah. Such existed? Yeah.

Speaker 2

sn2-27:32

Can you describe that spiritual

Speaker 1

sn2-27:33

Experience? Yes. Yeah. I died. That was basically what it was. I had death experience and it was realistic enough for me that I've not bothered too much about the idea of death, and I'm old enough that I should be, but this happened, I, it's been 1947, may of 1947. It happened in Seattle, Washington. I was away on a trip that I'd like to give you information on this, but I have to describe the whole thing from start to finish. And it wasn't just that I walked down the street one day and got hit in the head, but it happened to me as a surprise. But I knew that very well that I had lived on earth. I knew where I came from and it didn't bother me. I was very happy, very happy, very beautiful place. I must admit too, I didn't see a deity, and there's books written on this subject.

sn2-29:04

Richard Bucke wrote some books on it. He called it Cosmic Consciousness, and Eve was like a psychologist in a hospital up in Canada. And the counts vary, but there's different degrees of them. Some see an external phenomena, and Bucke was standing on his porch, you might say, and he was in one of those cities up there, Capitol of Quebec or something, and the whole scene lit up. The whole city lit up, and he never found out what caused it, but he was moved so much by it that he remained a factor in his life. He thought that he had been given a special beep into infinity. Well, this is not the same as a complete death experience. He didn't die. He was standing on his porch, but he saw this, that sort of thing. So there have been people that had them, and the reason I mentioned it, and the reason I mentioned, people who've down in history have had this experience. I don't think it's all propaganda. I think there are true accounts, and I probably wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't had something happen to myself. See, and I had incidentally had no desire at all to return, but evidently I was up there on a short ticket and I had to come back, I guess. I don't know.

sn2-30:58

But I found myself back. I was in a hotel room in Seattle when it happened and I went out the window. I consciously went out the window and I had a pain in my head is what brought it on pain and rightness, center of the top of my head. And I was unbearable. And I thought, boy, 3000 miles from home and how will they get the body back? That's the first thought that went in my head. How will they know where to send the body.

File sn3

Time: 32 minutes

Speaker 1

sn3-00:00

I walked over to the window and looked up at the cascade range, and I was fascinated by it, and I thought, that's where I want to go. And I went out the window just like you see these pictures about a bird flying or a person zooming up. That's what happened. But when I got up there, it wasn't, the Cascade Mount was in an entirely different place, but it was a very beautiful place. But I evidently had a limited amount of time and I found myself back in the bed. I had never got up. I never got up out of the bed. See, but I was a little upset. I mean, there's some sort of trauma you go through, some sort of trauma that at least I did that I didn't want to be there. The trauma was having to come back here. And also the thing was to try to hunt somebody else up that had the same thing so I could talk to 'em and we could compare notes.

sn3-01:04

I had a hard time ever finding anybody that had the same type of experience, but I don't want to discuss that with the idea that I'm any authority on theology or anything else. I'm just saying it happened and it was satisfactory to me. Now if you listen to around, you'll have people that knows, almost everybody knows somebody that's had a death experience. And sometimes it happens on operating table. You can pick up books where there's nothing but accounts of that. A fellow wrote a book called Life After Life Moody, and he was found a lot in hospitals where it'd be serious operations and they'd pass out under the anesthetic.

sn3-02:02

All of 'em are different. No, some of them don't go very far from the body. My younger brother was smashed up in an automobile accident, and this was in Arizona, and they took him to a hospital and they called me. I was back in West Virginia, and they called me and said he was in critical shape. He had his, he was hitchhiking and some lady picked him up and they rolled something, caused him roll, and the car rolled on him, smashed. These were off his ribs, so he wasn't supposed to have much of a chance, but he said that he remembered, he watched the operation from the ceiling. He saw everything he could to everything he could to everything they said. And his wife was in Texas. So she got up there shortly before the operation and they called me on the phone and asked what his religion?

sn3-03:06

I says, well, he was praised a Catholic. And they said, well, we want to know in case you get a priest or get a minister, a Protestant minister, what we get for him. So I told him, I says, well, I don't know what he'd want when you get older, you don't pay attention to that much to religion, whether it's a priest or what it is, and you quit going to church. And that's the way he had acted. Well, his wife was, she was Nazarene and she had a tremendous bitter attitude toward Catholics. So she came in and they had got an army man. He was a priest in an army uniform as a chaplain. They brought him in to give him the last rights and sheath, run him out of the operating room, called him a devil worshiper. And he's tried to anoint him for the last time. So, but the main part of it, the thing was that he was at peace. He was at peace. And he saw, and he heard his wife arguing. He told me, he said he could see her arguing with this priest. And he said it was ridiculous to him. He said it was like a big choke. What are they fighting over? A piece of meat? See? Silly. So these things are not always the same.

sn3-04:36

You recognize them only by the honesty of the person that tells it. See? And of course, he's my brother, and I know he didn't have any reason to lie because he stood up in the face of his wife. He didn't ask for the thing. But when I told him he's a Catholic, they proceeded to get a priest in. So there's accounts, if you look around and discuss it, sometimes you'll run into people that have had operations and survived the operations, but have had something that they considered more real than this existence here and more worthy. Yeah. John here. What do you expect to happen as you die and after it happens? I'm sorry, but I can't hear you too well. What

Speaker 2

sn3-05:23

Do you expect to happen as you die and after you're dead? What do you expect?

Speaker 1

sn3-05:29

Well, I'll go back to that same place if I can find it. We don't know. The whole thing is that there's no great revelation. There's no great revelation, except that beyond a shadow of a doubt that you're immortal. When people have that experience, when they find it, it comes as a surprise because a person's honest with themselves. We know nothing about life after death. You can't believe what people write or preach, see, but the incidents, if you get 'em, you get a bunch of them and study them, and you find they have common denominators, and these are people who have never met each other. These people who have had these experiences, they're common denominators. And there's none of them I've ever examined have ever talked of meeting God. See, some of 'em have talked of meeting their relatives. Quite a few have talked to be a relative waiting to talk to 'em. Sometimes they'd put their hand out, like to pull them in to help 'em across a little abyss or something. So it seems like that if we take that as there's any validity to it, the life after death is going to be a similar experience to this one.

Speaker 3

sn3-06:55

A lot of people have had near death experiences, but they don't say that they're enlightened. What you're describing, I've heard your story before, so I know a little bit more in detail what you are talking about. How did you come to be enlightened? Was it due to that experience or was it more of the whole process?

Speaker 1

sn3-07:17

Well, basically that's just a word to explain the things. The enlightened part is that you have faculties, you can develop faculties that other people don't have. And now, for instance, a person just like my brother, there was no faculty result. He was the same person when he came out. But see, I was a seeker, a searcher before this happened, and I spent the rest of my time and I found out that after I came back from there, I had certain faculties. And the result is there's people here that have seen some of these things that happened. Yeah. Here,

Speaker 2

sn3-08:05

Can you elaborate on what you said was the door to higher thinking? It was one of your questions that you asked.

Speaker 1

sn3-08:13

What did I say the question was,

Speaker 2

sn3-08:17

Or when did we realize that we have no control over our thoughts? You said that was important.

Speaker 1

sn3-08:24

Every thought is caused by a preceding thought. You got to go way back and way back and wake back. Beyond that down to childhood, maybe it is very difficult to find out the source of any concepts we had or any personality we had.

Speaker 2

sn3-08:41

So you're saying knowing that that is a means to understanding ourselves better?

Speaker 1

sn3-08:52

Well, I think there's a lot that you find. I'm a little bit reluctant to give you some details because we got possibly a lot of skeptics here that don't believe that the type of thing can exist. And I don't like to feed them if I can avoid it, because I believe my life was spent in eagerly searching, not in denial. If somebody came along and I thought they described an experience, I could at least let's hear it out. See? And I heard a lot of 'em out, and the majority of 'em are very, very honest, and it isn't too important to them. It isn't overwhelmingly threatening or over excessively beautiful or anything like that, but it's just a quiet conclusion that they come to. We don't become gods in dying, but somewhere it's evident that we get help. And it isn't from if we're good and saintly. No, it's if we got relatives that are over there where most of the cases spoke of being helped by relatives who were died ahead of 'em.

Speaker 2

sn3-10:21

Do you believe that the truism that an individual gain, you talking about enlightened, do you believe that can be conveyed to other individuals? Do you believe that can be taught between you and beings, or is it something that each person has to find? I mean, could you believe you can actually teach, people

Speaker 1

sn3-10:35

Teach it? Yes. Yes. That's what I'm doing. That's exactly what I'm doing. Yes. And in other words, the truth will make you free. I'm not going to lie. I may give you opinions that you don't agree with or that you may upset you or something like that because that's my personality maybe. But this is a science that we have to tell the truth in.

Speaker 2

sn3-11:05

So did someone teach you?

Speaker 1

sn3-11:07

No, no, no, no. I only learned it as a result of my lifestyle and the things that happened to me. And this incident, I thought galvanized a lot of that because I came back and spent the rest of my life looking into esoteric and spiritual phenomena and trying to nail down stuff that was valid and keep it and discard stuff that was not necessarily true, not necessarily proven. And it is impossible for me to tell you or stand here and tell you or anything it would prove. What I'm saying is you can't prove this. You have to see it.

Speaker 3

sn3-11:51

So it's an individual thing.

Speaker 1

sn3-11:54

It's an individual thing. I don't know. I heard George talking about the zen I studied with. I would've studied anything anybody had. I wanted to find out, these are the experts on life. They're not experts at getting millions of dollars, experts and having a spiritual objective. So I went out of my way to get their books, to go meet them, whatever was necessary to find out. And I was, strangely enough, I was fortunate enough to have things happen. And I don't know, you may think I'm a little opinionated. I am strongly opinionated. I could be wrong if somebody asked me if I like bush better than Clinton or something like that. I might give you the wrong answer, but or an answer you didn't like. So I don't do it. I don't care really about it or who wins. The ball game is not important to me. But I felt that my life was only good after this thing happened. It was only good as long as I could communicate this to someone else. And I've communicated it to quite a few people.

Speaker 2

sn3-13:17

So in your findings, did you find that there was a blueprint for this world? We live on that.

Speaker 1

sn3-13:23

A blueprint for what? Predestined. I can't answer you on predestination. We could be predestined and we could not be. I don't know. I have no proof for a solid proof for either argument. I think you're predestined in this respect. You're predestined to have been born by your parents because you weren't born by anybody else. So a lot of things happened to us. So we can't refute because, and we are colored by the personalities of our parents and their parents and so on. So this may even color our philosophic thinking in the long run. You can't tell. But what it is, what it is, is you pound on the door until the door blows up, it blows open, and you can't describe this stuff in mathematical terms. You can't describe it in psychological terms. You have to see the product of it. When you see the product of it, then something's happened right here.

Speaker 4

sn3-14:38

What do you think is the purpose of this higher existence that

Speaker 1

sn3-14:42

You're talking about? Of what? This higher existence that you talk about. What's the purpose of what you feel is the purpose? I can't get that second word. The purpose. The purpose of higher? Yeah, the higher existence. Higher what? Existence. Existence. I don't know the answers to that goes back for maybe a million or a billion years. The whole thing of existence. I don't pretend to know anything why we exist.

Speaker 4

sn3-15:13

I have two questions really. How is an enlightened life different from just a regular life?

Speaker 1

sn3-15:20

No different. No different. Different at all? No. Do I act any different than any goof?

Speaker 4

sn3-15:29

I was just curious. What's the difference and how do you know you're enlight?

Speaker 1

sn3-15:32

I know, I know. And the people that know me know that's all.

Speaker 4

sn3-15:39

Okay. My second question is, what's a good way to find that?

Speaker 1

sn3-15:42

Huh?

Speaker 4

sn3-15:43

How do you want to teach us to find that? I'd like to find it myself. How should I go about it? What's a good way to start?

Speaker 1

sn3-15:51

Hang around. There are witnesses right here are here in the place that have, I've known for several years and they know I'm not trying to dodge you see? But I'm saying this is that you, this cannot be described. The thing itself cannot be described. To give you an example, and of course I don't expect you to believe it, but I'm going to tell you anyhow. We have a group. We have a group in West Virginia, and the young lady came to it from Lexington, Kentucky. She was native of Lexington, Kentucky. And she came, I think, to visit a fellow that was there and she stayed. And I have little routines that I do, and I try them. And there's times when I can see through the human body, I know you're going to say, that's a hot one. Yeah, that's all right. I don't care what you believe, but I'm doing it because you asked me for details. See, and how do you know? So what happened was occasionally we would sit in what we called a rapport session. And in that rapport session, I would possibly be able to see ailments inside of a person's. And we'd hold meetings and total strangers would come just like it'd be a body of people here I have never met. And I'd walk down and point at them and say, your head is hurting you. And they would nod their head.

sn3-17:47

In this particular case, I was sitting in a room, we pulled up two chairs. Now there's people here tonight that have met. This is now my wife. They've met her and she never left. She never went back to Kentucky. But she came in, we were sitting together, and I happened to look across at her and I saw nothing real sinister, but I saw what looked like a chain of beads on her diagonal diagonally across her chest. And we sat in two chairs about that. Two chairs be about that far apart. I also saw a very black region in her abdomen, and she had had stomach trouble. I didn't know this. She just a newcomer. She come through Pittsburgh. She didn't come directly into West Virginia, but she went up in Pittsburgh, got a job, and she must've got ill because she went and had x-rays taken.

sn3-18:53

Now, this is a coincidence. So when I mentioned that I saw these things in her, she went up and picked up the prints, whatever you call the pictures. And on the picture was the medical definition was granuloma. And across the rib area, it showed on a x-ray picture. See, of course, the darker one, the real one that looked troublesome was she didn't X-ray that low. See what I mean? It was the lower part of her abdomen. And this turned out that she had trouble in her female organs. She had one child and that was all, she was in bad shape there. So this is just one incident and there's abilities coming. If you don't, it ain't the idea. Don't search. Don't go out and try. I never wanted to be that way, but I was just overjoyed when I could look at somebody and say, Hey, and then go take it away. You got a headache and I'd go take it away.

sn3-20:16

I had a little method of doing it just in two or three seconds. So you feel like you're worth something to human race. And so it's been my path. That's the reason I am not a simpering preacher. I'm a man that'll fight if I have to fight. And I believe in myself, and I believe that I'm a friend of humanity, and that's the way it'll be. And I don't think you have to pretend you're sanctified or something of that sort. I don't know what, I'm not too keen about the definition of sanctity. In fact, I am in the animal kingdom, so homosapians. But regardless, I know that things can happen to you, and I think that's probably one of the factors. There's a fellow by the name of Levi wrote a book on magic, and he left the instructions behind. It was a very simple formula to know, to dare to do and to be silent. And at this point, I'm talking too much. See? Yes.

Speaker 3

sn3-21:31

I've got a question to add to your list of questions. You were at one point in the earlier part of your list, you got onto the subject of who should we prosecute in the case of a rape? Okay. I would like to add a question that I think you left off, and I'm speaking as a survivor of rape. Okay? You didn't offer the option that we should prosecute. Should we prosecute those who promote the idea that rape has to do with temptation and not with abuse of power and dominance, and that don't realize that it doesn't have a lot to do with sex when the rapist rape 89-year-old women, 6-year-old boys, 57-year-old men and six month old infants.

Speaker 1

sn3-22:27

Yes. Yes. I agree with you.

Speaker 3

sn3-22:29

Okay,

Speaker 1

sn3-22:30

I agree with you. What should we do with them? See what I say? See, the reason I said that? There's a little thing I say that there's possibly a lot of women get raped by wearing too short of clothes or they walk around half naked or something, or they taunt the guy. This is what I'm talking about. It is not all caused by the same thing. And I'm not saying that we shouldn't. If I had a daughter and somebody raped her, I imagined he would never live to brag about it. That's my feelings about rape or bothering people's children. I say that people who bother children should be killed. They should have a rock tied to their neck and threw it in the water. You remember?

Speaker 3

sn3-23:18

I don't believe that. I don't have that feeling for the person who raped me.

Speaker 1

sn3-23:21

Yeah.

Speaker 3

sn3-23:24

I didn't even have it at the time that I was raped. But Father, I had a great deal of rage at him for doing that. But I do not believe he should have been killed. But I don't think I made myself clear.

Speaker 1

sn3-23:37

Oh, you were an adult though. But I'm talking about this idea that

Speaker 3

sn3-23:41

I was quite young.

Speaker 1

sn3-23:42

Yeah,

sn3-23:44

But see, children can't protect themselves. This is the reason I say that. We have got to protect our families. I don't care what my religion is. I am not a damn bit of good if I can't protect my children. See, and if people protected their children, there would be less people bothering their children. Today, a guy, a guy can buy his way out of any court, any court in this country, all he has to do is buy his way out and he can go back and do it again. Yeah. Are you talking about protection or revenge? What'd you say? Are you talking about

Speaker 4

sn3-24:20

Protection or revenge?

Speaker 1

sn3-24:24

I didn't hear that last word. Revenge.

Speaker 2

sn3-24:27

R-E-V-E-N-G-E. Revenge.

Speaker 1

sn3-24:29

Revenge. No, not revenge. Not revenge. It isn't necessary,

Speaker 2

sn3-24:37

But if you kill the rapist, isn't that revenge?

Speaker 1

sn3-24:40

I don't have to do it with revenge. I do it with protection after they back. That's revenge. Not necessarily. Not necessarily. You have to stop. It isn't revenge as much as warning. It'd be more warning than revenge. But do you somebody who rapes your kids, would you go just smile at them and say, oh, well, you should go to the church and tell the preachers you sinned or something like that? Should you condone it? No. See,

Speaker 3

sn3-25:13

The fact that I'm not willing to kill the person who raped me when I was six months old,

Speaker 1

sn3-25:19

Six months

Speaker 3

sn3-25:19

Not mean that I condone his behavior.

Speaker 1

sn3-25:23

Well, you weren't capable of protecting yourself at six months old.

Speaker 3

sn3-25:26

No, but I know who the person was.

Speaker 1

sn3-25:28

Yeah,

Speaker 3

sn3-25:29

And I don't want to kill him. Okay,

Speaker 1

sn3-25:32

Well, sure. I'm not telling you to,

Speaker 3

sn3-25:35

And I would not want have my father to kill him and see what you're holding. You're saying what you're saying is that somebody would have to protect the children by killing someone.

Speaker 1

sn3-25:46

A man. We are animals. I don't agree. We are animals, basically. And as animals, we have the responsibility of protecting our offspring. Any good animal will protect their young.

Speaker 3

sn3-25:58

Somebody who's going to rape someone is not thinking about whether somebody else happened to kill another rapist. The death penalty has never,

Speaker 1

sn3-26:09

I'm not telling you anybody to kill. I'm just saying. I'm just saying. I would not tolerate anybody raping any member of my family. That's all I believe. It is easy to be cowards and walk away and let somebody else try the case or something like that.

Speaker 2

sn3-26:27

You said that any animal believe

Speaker 4

sn3-26:30

Affect or young or you feel that they should. What about, say the sea turtle who lays the eggs and then gets off the sea

Speaker 1

sn3-26:36

And never comes back? Do we have to get into sea turtles? I was hoping if somebody had ask a question about esoteric philosophy. Huh? You said that all animals or animals, so I missed one. Shoot me. Yeah.

Speaker 3

sn3-27:05

You've written about the importance of the intuition, and I want to know how intuition is different from ESP and what are some methods of developing or charting the

Speaker 2

sn3-27:15

Intuition?

Speaker 1

sn3-27:15

The human mind cannot find spirituality with logic. And it's only by having a faculty in your mind that is superior or good enough to pick up what we call non-material evidence or non-material knowledge. See? So that's intuition. We have to develop an intuition, and it comes in handy in most everything you do in relation to other beings, other human beings. We can't reason. We can't reason out. We can't logically reason out what's going to happen to us after death, through our intuition, we may find something

Speaker 3

sn3-28:00

Other ways to develop your intuition.

Speaker 1

sn3-28:03

Yes. Yes. There's ways to develop power, but I only tell you privately how it's done because there's other people, the majority of people, you can't. You can't. Yes. Back there. I want to ask you, what's

Speaker 4

sn3-28:20

The difference between the spirit and the soul?

Speaker 1

sn3-28:24

The spirit and the soul? Yes. I don't know. I've never compared them. I don't know if I have both. Maybe I only have one.

Speaker 4

sn3-28:33

Yeah. I know that's a question to my question, but I'm saying, do you know for certain there's a difference? If there is any, a difference between the spirit and the soul?

Speaker 1

sn3-28:43

I don't know what they mean by them. In other words, a lot of people use the term soul and they don't have the same meaning that I would have or that you would have. So there's no way of knowing why they chose those words. See,

Speaker 4

sn3-28:59

Is intuition, is it making perhaps one of those?

Speaker 1

sn3-29:05

I think I agree that those words are used loosely by everybody. People talk about their immortal soul, and it might be the immortal spirit. We don't know. I think they're pretty much anonymous. I don't think anybody could come up and give you a real materialistic definition for which is the better or which is which. Yeah.

Speaker 4

sn3-29:34

Intuition is basically something that if intuition is something that is depending on

Speaker 2

sn3-29:43

Material fact, does that mean that

Speaker 4

sn3-29:49

Your intuition relies on something without any material proof, and therefore that's tantamount to faith?

Speaker 1

sn3-29:58

The intuition is only proven by a series of events that go over successfully. You'll be even a little shaky as to whether you really got it right. See, in other words, if you're playing poker or something and your intuition says everything and it works, you'll try it again. You'll use it again. You'll become proficient. Perhaps if you miss, it might cost you some money, but intuition is something, it has always got to be observed and checked, double checked. In other words, we should never go into any of this sort of thing with ego. Ego that we're going to be intuition or we're going to become intuition. You become intuition just by your desire to find facts, that sort of thing. And of course, I think too, the intuition is stronger between people who know each other. We find that quite common. People, sometimes people don't have to talk. You'll know what they're going to say. That's intuition. But in the realm of spirituality, in the realm of spiritual philosophy and fishing around for some way to do the right thing, to find immortality or find a trip, get across and look and see, is.

File sn4

Time: 19 minutes.

Speaker 1

sn4-00:00

See, you have to develop a faculty. It becomes a faculty. And I don't say that it's always perfect either, but when it is, I think the times when you get a really hit on something and you've got an answer, a good answer, you can depend on it. Yeah.

Speaker 2

sn4-00:30

Have you found evidence of being able to project thoughts or affect the environment in your mind, outside of your own body?

Speaker 1

sn4-00:36

Well, can you tell to me that again?

Speaker 2

sn4-00:38

Have you found evidence of being able to project your own thoughts and affect the environment around you?

Speaker 1

sn4-00:47

I think that you could project thoughts and people pick 'em up.

Speaker 2

sn4-00:51

I didn't know how much experience, if you had, how much experience or what you had seen of this.

Speaker 1

sn4-00:56

Well, I'll give you an example. Have you ever been traveling with somebody and you'd both be silent and all one, and somebody would say, geez, I just thought of Mrs. Jones and such and such. And the other party would say, that's exactly what I was thinking. At the same time then that both of those parties, they're telepathic. They pick up telepathy.

Speaker 2

sn4-01:19

You think you can do this under conscious control?

Speaker 1

sn4-01:21

Huh?

Speaker 2

sn4-01:21

Do you think you can do this under conscious control?

Speaker 1

sn4-01:23

Conscious control Studied like a science, you mean? No, I don't think so. You see there's, there's a way. It's a way you hold your head. You may not buy that explanation, but it's the way you hold your head. And when you get that down to a fine point and hold your head the proper way, you'll pick up a whole lot of things. See? In other words, and you hold your head. I'll give you one clue. No ego. No ego, whatever you do, don't do it for money. Refuse to do it for money. You know what I mean? Just say, this would be wonderful if this happened.

sn4-02:07

And with that in mind, it seems like all the doors come down and there's a better and better chance all for you for picking up stuff. But of course now that's the way I carried 'em. Maybe a person can be intuitive and be running a racket. I don't know. But I believe that I had to be separate myself from it. Because what you're doing is you're going to develop an ego. Ego, for instance. Maybe you can heal somebody. You got to watch it. The very healing of people might be an ego. Ego, an ego. Ego can destroy your whole thinking processes. You'll get fed and baited and destroyed, or you'll get good luck. You'll have a lot of intuitive thoughts, accurate, intuitive pickups. And if you get ego egotistical, something will destroy you. I don't mean kill you, I'm just being lousy up.

Speaker 3

sn4-03:10

Yeah. You were saying something about the fellow in reference to gave example like an individual.

Speaker 1

sn4-03:16

It is rough. I can't hear you too well.

Speaker 3

sn4-03:18

Yeah. You gave an example, like an individual, if they was together and one was thinking of something, the other one was thinking they were thinking of the same thing. You were saying they're telepath. Do you mean by that

Speaker 1

sn4-03:31

Telepath? That's what I mean by telepathy is a transfer of thoughts from one person to another so that they are telepathy.

Speaker 3

sn4-03:40

I mean, how does this coincide with a type of mental unity? Coincide with what? A mental unity. How does it coincide with mental unity incident?

Speaker 1

sn4-03:57

Did you say mental unity? Yeah. That's what telepathy is.

Speaker 3

sn4-04:01

But I'm saying why does it have to be that? Why could it be just a coincidence?

Speaker 1

sn4-04:08

Well, you can't prove that it isn't a coincidence, but it still be a transfer of thought thoughts actually were transferred, picked up one senate and the other person picked it up.

Speaker 4

sn4-04:27

If the psychologists are trying to teach us to be an animal and the creatures are passing on a cosmology that they were taught by somebody else, that may or may not be true, and I'm running a program that I may not be able to necessarily trust, how am I going to find the truth?

Speaker 1

sn4-04:46

I don't know, fight like hell, don't give up the fight. It is not impossible. It's not impossible, but we're not going to buy it. We're not going to find an easy way. Don't come easy.

Speaker 2

sn4-05:15

Did you find it necessary to perfect your logic while you were on the search?

Speaker 1

sn4-05:22

You mean if I should be searching, I should pretend I got a better logic and I really have. If I thought my logic was making mistakes, I would try to correct it. I'd try to be truthful. That's all. Just be truthful. It is a possibility in this business of helping other people. It's a possibility that you can fail. You can try to heal somebody and they don't get healed. Don't give it up. Your motive was good. Don't stop. And that don't mean that you got to jinx on you. It just means we don't know why. Sometimes things, you can't set a mechanized type of healing system or telepathic communication system.

sn4-06:27

You'll have good incidents and negative incidents that are unimportant incidents. But I'm just saying these things do exist and I think they exist in proportion to the individual's desire to serve as fellow man. And it makes better feeling all the way around. People are happier. The knowledge of ESO jury facts, if there are such available, we could write 'em down. But that knowledge of that is not definable in words generally. You can't really define it. It's you hope that things can happen. Don't try to force 'em. See what I mean? There's no way you can put pressure on, and I used to say, put yourself in a position where you can allow things to happen instead of just saying, I'm going to heal that guy. I'm going to do this, be accepted, be patient, and be happy. And I'm always happy if I just take a guy's headache away. I'm happy. I'm useful. That's the way I look at it. See,

Speaker 2

sn4-08:27

Do you have an understanding of where this healing comes from?

Speaker 1

sn4-08:29

Healing?

Speaker 2

sn4-08:30

Yeah. What is causing it or how are you able to do it?

Speaker 1

sn4-08:35

No, I couldn't say anything about it. It's beyond, it's a mystery and I don't question it. Like I said, I'm happy it happens. I do believe that there are two different types of healing though. One of them is the mental thing in which you make a pass, just a pass over them or something of that sort. And then there's another type of healing in which they're, you take part of yourself. That mean, I think it's dangerous. Healing can somehow drain the healer, and that's not necessary. And nobody should exert their own personal energy to do that. Give you an example. In the Bible, a woman was following Christ and she was suffering from an issue of blood. It said, and she was ill, and she said to herself, if I can just touch his garment, I'll be healed. See? So she touched his garment, and what did he say? You ever remember reading that in the Bible with anybody? Christ said,

Speaker 5

sn4-09:59

The energy leave his body. He said, who touched

Speaker 1

sn4-10:02

Me? Right? He says, I fought the virtue. Leave me. That's what he's word. He caught the virtue. So this is something worth paying attention to. It is a virtue. It is. He was weakened. It took strength. He was healed, somebody and didn't know it. In other words. So consequently, if you're a wholesome person, don't let people touch you. It's not that they're going to rape you, it's just that you're going to take strength from you. See?

Speaker 2

sn4-10:32

Are you talking in the physical sense or

Speaker 1

sn4-10:34

Physical? Physical energy. Yeah. Physical energy can be channeled and transmuted, transmitted and help people. But I'm not saying it's all the best motives. So there's reason we don't know why some people are ill. And of course the curing of the person is sometimes related to whether they should be cured or not. Whether they have destroyed themselves or if it's just an accidentally like a person gets a headache. But what I'm talking about is it is like a scientific investigation. As you go along with spirituality, you try things to see if they work and you don't hurt anybody biologically, you might help them. But I'm just trying to give you a hint as to how you hold your head. Number one, don't feel important. I'm very reluctant to talk to you about it. I rather talk to people individually because it may look like I'm advertising.

Speaker 3

sn4-11:59

I have another question. A person touched another person. Example, you gave the man a woman touching Jesus, and he said he felt virtue touching you. What happen soon? You won. Have it. You won. Have those healing powers from,

Speaker 1

sn4-12:20

I can't hear you. Can you tell me what he said?

Speaker 4

sn4-12:23

He's asking if somebody can take your energy by touching you. Could they take enough to steal your healing powers?

Speaker 1

sn4-12:31

No. Oh, you mean if they touched the healer?

Speaker 6

sn4-12:35

Yes.

Speaker 1

sn4-12:36

Yeah. I don't think so. I doubt it. I doubt seriously. If they could take anything from the healer

Speaker 4

sn4-12:44

Other than his energy,

Speaker 1

sn4-12:46

Other than what he wanted to give them.

Speaker 4

sn4-12:49

Yes.

Speaker 1

sn4-12:52

Proportion to be sympathy and that sort of thing. Yeah.

Speaker 5

sn4-12:57

When you were searching for truth in reading books, did you find any help or any truth in the teachings of Jesus

Speaker 1

sn4-13:10

The Bible? Yes, I think I did. Oh, I just quoted you case. I see instances of wisdom in that. I don't know when I'm reading the Bible, if it's a true translation. See, the Bible was translated. So I've read some things that I thought were translated incorrectly. Give you an example. In the Old Testament, in the case of a fellow that had, he was visited by an angel. If you've read the Bible, you'll know you'll pick this up. I forgot what it related to what his name was, but some Ians outside in the town wanted to rape the angel. You remember that incident?

Speaker 5

sn4-14:09

Yes. The men in the town wanted to rape the angels. He was a visiting lot, I think, wasn't

Speaker 1

sn4-14:16

It? He was what?

Speaker 5

sn4-14:17

Visiting lot.

Speaker 1

sn4-14:20

Lots. Lots. Husband wasn't it wasn't lot The woman.

Speaker 5

sn4-14:25

No. Lot's wife.

Speaker 1

sn4-14:27

Lot's wife was the one that got turned into hell of salt. Okay. Okay. Lot was there. And they were trying to break the door down and said, Hey, Cindy, let us have that. It was an angel or two angels, I don't know what it was, maybe, but just one. But they said Cindy Ma or something like that. Cindy fell out and he said, take my daughters, but leave these men alone or this man alone. And so that sounds like an airtight story, but the word angel was taken from the Greek word Anglos. An Anglos meant messenger, not celestial being. So I thought to myself, they weren't necessarily spirits, see, but he was possibly a better looking creature than the ones that existed in this evil little town, and they wanted to rape him. And so consequently, sometimes you get back and get the Greek origin or the thing that translated from you get just like the idea of in the New Testament, somebody supposed to have said that if you call your neighbor a name, you'll be guilty of eternal hell fire or something.

sn4-15:56

And it wasn't the word that was translated. It meant the city dump of his. I've forgotten what the Bible word was that he'd be thrown into. This looked like a hell or something like that sort. But no, the word translated meant said he dumped. Meaning if you call your neighbor a fool, you couldn't think Christ would've put an idea across that you got to kill somebody for calling somebody a fool. See, but if you called the people a fool, well, they'd take you and throw you out of town. You got to leave and you had to make a living. You have to forage on the dump with the leopards. The leopards were walled out of the cities. So you get a little better if you can get the translation of a lot of the stuff in the Bible. It has much more meaning in it. More direct meaning. Yeah.

Speaker 3

sn4-16:56

I got another question. Why do our history, the European hasn't been a religious person. Why in the composition of history has he been as he's been a person who destroyed, destroyed, and plu through civilizations and people and things like that. Why do the European slender kill people? Why does he this?

Speaker 1

sn4-17:33

Can you

Speaker 3

sn4-17:34

Deliver that for me?

Speaker 6

sn4-17:36

He wants to know why the European people blunder and destroy other people and they're not religious.

Speaker 1

sn4-17:43

Not religious

Speaker 3

sn4-17:45

Of all religious people. Why they the most irreligious?

Speaker 1

sn4-17:54

Tell me again.

Speaker 6

sn4-17:55

Why are the Europeans the most irreligious people?

Speaker 1

sn4-17:58

I didn't know that.

Speaker 6

sn4-17:59

Neither did I didn't know that. Since we just found out. I guess we need a little time to cope. Why?

Speaker 1

sn4-18:12

Well, we kill people in this country. We kill religious people in this country. We like to kill people. I mean people, some of us like to kill people, especially if they have a religion they want to have in the barn. Blow the barn down, kill 'em, stop. So there's this thing about animosity. God knows why people get carried away, but I don't know how to get 'em wound up that tight to go out and kill people. But they do. They're not necessarily religious people. People that kill aren't necessarily religious.

Footnotes

End