Difference between revisions of "1993-1101-NC-State-University-Raleigh-November"

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== To Do ==
== To Do ==
== Notes ==
== Notes ==
SEE TALK PAGE
SEE TALK PAGE


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Is video the same as the Mr Rose video, supposedly from 1991?
Is video the same as the Mr Rose video, supposedly from 1991?


File sn0 -- 5:40
File sn1 -- 25:43
File sn2 -- 31:41
File sn3 -- 31:23
File sn4 -- 30:29
File sn5 -- 30:04
First 7 minutes is repeat of last 7 minutes of side 4. Deleted from mp3 file #5. File 5 – 25 minutes** see below..
== Transcription ==
== Transcription ==
=== File sn0 ===
=== File sn0 ===
Time:  5:40
Speaker 1
sn0-00:00
George Buehler: At the Zen Master. Some of you may have attended that lecture in the past, and it caught my attention immediately, firstly, because, well, OG tells some amazing stories. He told some stories about an old man in West Virginia who just happened to be a zen master and the most unlikely zen master since he was an American, was born, raised in West Virginia, was not into beads and robes, and most of the other things you might associate with the whole word Zen. Instead, he told a story about a man who had spent his life in a relentless search for the truth, and a man who after years of searching, had finally found it in an experience that culminated in what the Eastern philosophies like Zen referred to as enlightenment or satori.
sn0-01:00
It's an experience that many religious traditions recognize, and it's essentially the answer to the big questions. Now, I was very interested at this point because I was a freshman and like most freshmen, I was trying to figure out what to do with my life, and this seemed like the perfect opportunity because most Zen masters you might hear of, tend to be in books, tend to be dead, tend to be a long way away, and also very Eastern and esoteric and difficult to understand. And Mr. Rose was none of these things. He was alive, he was in driving distance, and he was very western, very easy to understand, at least from what I'd heard. So I got to know Augie, and then later on I went up to West Virginia and met Mr. Rose, and I'm not quite sure what I was expecting to see from Mr. Rose. All I can say is that in the years I've come to know Mr. Rose, he has been outside of and beyond any expectations I could have had. There are a lot of things about Mr. Rose. I could mention his devastating sense of humor, which tends to catch a lot of people with their pants down and his totally unpretentious style of teaching, which makes it very, very western, very accessible. And he's just a very friendly man, a very easy man to get to know.
sn0-02:27


Side 1 = 32 minutes total.
But I don't think those things really summarize or the essence of what Mr. Rose in his life has been. I think the trait that characterizes Mr. Rose also happens to be the trait that Mr. Rose feels is most essential to someone pursuing some sort of spiritual path, and that is relentless perseverance. Mr. Rose's whole life has been one long, relentless, uncompromising search for the truth at any price. His search began in his childhood when he was about 12 years old. He joined a Capuchin monastery in Pennsylvania because he wanted to get nearest to those people. He was led to believe, had some answers, and if these folks knew God well, that's the folks he wanted to hang around with. He got his education there and spent, I don't know, about five years there. Eventually he left because he became convinced that the monks there knew no more about God than he did and had no privileged information.


File 0 – 6 minute introduction by George Buehler
sn0-03:29
 
From there, he went on to any source that seemed to have any kind of promise for giving answers. He went to college, studied physics and chemistry, and tried to find an answer perhaps through a materialistic approach. Later on, he found out that had flaws since the materialistic paradigm tends to be really good at cataloging things, but not all that good at explaining why things are or what your life should be. From there, he went on to all sorts of esoteric traditions. He went through spiritualism, yoga, Zen, anything he could find that held some promise of giving a direct answer to these kinds of questions. And it was only after intense years of seeking that he finally came to an answer. And since then, rose has taken all of that persevering dynamic energy and turned it towards trying to help other people. When he was seeking, he made a promise because he met so many hucksters, so many people who had partial truths or were just trying to fleece people, take advantage of people who were honestly searching for answers.
 
sn0-04:39
 
He met so much of those hucksters in his seeking that he promised if he ever found anything genuine, if he ever found something he could share, he would share it with people and share it at no cost and whatever price. So long as people would listen, he would talk to people. So in doing that, he's written a number of books. He's written the Algin papers, the Direct Mind experience, and the Psychology, the Observer amongst other books, and he's opened up his life to anyone who care to come check him out. He's donated 186 acre farm to the use of the TAT Foundation, which is a national organization that he helped to start to encourage people to search for answers for themselves and to take this quest in earnest. So without further ado, I'd like to introduce Mr. Richard Rose.


=== File sn1 ===
=== File sn1 ===
File 1 – 26 minutes. Corresponded with A. Pulyan for a couple years. AP went right to work sorting garbage from truth, didn’t make it a business, no money. Tibetan for of Buddhism and Zen is perpetual questioning. Listen to all the movements and try to find if there is truth in them. Always a bit of venality in all movements. The more you focus on it the more you become. Gurdjieff, profound knowledge of human mind. Lock person up in cave until they find. Somewhere you will find yourself disappointed with your lifestyle. Exercises and books to keep your mind on the subject, but you will find little gifts, that you’re being fed certain information, that you can make the trip and return. Certain faculties develop. Each person has to fight his way through. Tendency to give up because you’re making no progress but one day you find yourself alive. Tibet – shock system, get what you want or die in the cell. Every person can acquire. You should start when you’re young. RR started as a child. Couldn’t find God in the communion wafer. I found that I didn’t believe any of it. Started studying movements. To believe is error. You can’t have faith in something that slips out of you mind as soon as you utter the word. In the pursuit doors open, you get capacity to cause things, shows that you are on the track. But pursuing phenomena is sidetrack. 30 years old, Seattle, decided to get married, made jackass out of myself. Back to library, meditation. Meditation: don’t do it according to clock; do it until you get tired, rest, and do some more. Pain in head and out the window to Cascade mountains. No snow. Realized I was dead. Beautiful place but nobody here but me. Wanted to see people, saw humanity. This is everything, I wonder what nothingness is. Fell back to world. Looked  for consolation, priest in Catholic Church; priest asked why he hadn’t been to confession. Anger at his answer was a healing event. Bus back to Cleveland. Bob’s wife says, “You’ve lost your ego.” Tried to understand experience. Spiritual search becomes a burden to people; people should take a burden and sit with it. Later started talking at universities.
Time:  25:43
 
Speaker 1  
 
sn1-00:00
 
R: Well, I think he's about covered it. We might as well go home.
 
It is pretty difficult to give you a picture, a real picture of Zen, but I do want to talk about it a little because it's not talked about much. And I had found a Zen teacher. I didn't go to Tibet, I've never been out of the country, but I found this fellow in New York City and I was kind of surprised he'd been referred to me as a teacher of Zen and I corresponded with him for a couple years. You pick up things. There was never any statistics or anything like that given any history of Zen. He went right to work on the business of sorting reality from garbage or sorting the truth from, let's say, making a racket out of the education that zen is. So I must admit that I knew he had a teacher that was in this country also. He worked without fee. There was absolutely no, and you build a certain superstition about money after a while. I don't believe that.
 
sn1-02:03
 
First of all, I don't believe in violating friendship. And when you're standing up talking to somebody or you're talking to them over a period of years, you can't play the huckster. You face the truth and possibly state the truth if that helps a person understand anything, whether his reason for being here and his inability to leave here or do something with his life that he wouldn't be satisfied with. So I got quite acquainted with the Tibetan form of Buddhism and Zen as well. And it was nothing more than a perpetual persistent questioning of yourself, whether you're real or not, or whether you have something that somebody else might want to hear. But the main thing is to find the truth. The truth isn't something that you get by somebody giving you a third degree. This is something you listen to all the isms that exist and try to find if there is any of them that has the truth in it.
 
sn1-03:32
 
And when if you dig, dig far enough while you find out that there's always a little bit of ality, I wouldn't say what's happening in Tibet, whether I suspected even in Tibet, there's ality, but not necessarily among the people who were following a zen mind. And so consequently, you get whatever books you can get your hands on to determine if there is an immortal soul. And it's worth chasing trying to find out and the process of which you have to read a lot of perhaps spiritual literature. But there's another way. There's another way. If for instance, I've went through all the sacred books of religion and I came away with no assurance that I had any proof that this stuff was real. See down goes through translations, and some of it may be deliberately a setup. So as when you progress into this, the more you focus on it, the more you become something and you get surprises along the road.
 
sn1-04:58
 
A person I've heard stories, for instance, I dunno if you've ever heard of iff, was I considered the first psychologist, psychiatrist, or whatever you want to call him from Europe. He had a profound view of the human mind and he examined the movements over in Asia also. And some of the people that wanted to find the truth, the answer to life and death were placed in a cell and they were handed a loaf of bread once a day and they stayed there until they found the answer. And good many of 'em died there. And he would say they'd pull the carcass out and scraped the floors and scrubbed the floors and put somebody else in place because this is how serious it is to find the truth because too much depends on it. And we are always disappointed with our lifestyle. No matter what you do. Somewhere down along the line you'll find that you miss something or you fool yourself. And this is socially, philosophically as well. So the thing is, is to get a means of checking stuff out. Don't accept it until you can check it out to your satisfaction. Now, there are exercises you can practice reading books and that sort of thing to get your mind on a certain subject. But what happens, there's kind of a little added benefit as you go along. And that is you find gifts.
 
sn1-06:56
 
Things happen to you that are favorable is what I'm saying. And little by little you get an idea that you're getting fed some information, valuable information, it comes about slowly. At least it did for me. I can't speak for everybody. And this is something happens that proves to you beyond a shadow of a doubt that you're not going to die. And in other words, you make the trip and return. This is one of the things that happens. The other one is that of course, that you have certain faculties, and I don't think that they're germane to the health of a person or anything like that. There's no reason why except that you can do things and you may not know why at the time you don't know the procedure. In other words, people can become healed and they can say, it came from this or that, it come from God almighty, or it came from a doctor's formula or they want to say.
 
sn1-08:07
 
But if people can be healed, and this is the principle of this shocking people into spiritual knowledge, you just don't dream about it. You just don't join a group of people and they all get together and chant. We know it all. Say each individual has to work by himself and fight it through. And the biggest part of the time, if you're not persistent, you'll think, Hey, I got to get away from this stuff because I don't have an answer. I'm not getting the answers. I'm just a body that's going to die someday. And I say this after examining all the scriptures too incidentally, it's possible you're just a body and nothing much. You're not worth much. See, and even for humanity, you're not worth much. But then one day comes along and you find out that you're real. And possibly, I can't say forever, but I do know that people survive death, at least certain people do. And then there's, I would, of course, I want to keep on the target here today, but sometime I'd like to be in a position where I could show you the ability to find illnesses and take them away.
 
sn1-09:43
 
This has nothing to do with zen, but it has to do in the pursuit of knowledge and truth, things come along that you don't ask for. And what the reason for it. I don't argue. It's possible that it gives us an impetus then to say, oh, this is wonderful. Let's get in deeper. Let's go for the big answers, or let's see how far we can carry this in the decision whether you're immortal or not. And the next thing is that you'll find that you can affect things. Now, again, I don't know. I have no assurance that this stuff is taught in Tibet. All I know about Tibet is that they have a shock system that you either focus on what you want and get it, or you stay in that cell and rot and shovel you out. So that is an accomplishment if the guy breaks through. Of course, I don't have any, no way I have any contact with the statistics of Tibet, but I do know that people went over there like Ger and found out that it's a rough deal. I mean, you don't play around with it. You can't bribe them. You can't bribe anybody. Even if you could, it wouldn't help you. So the one thing that I would like to convey to people are these things that every person can acquire.
 
sn1-11:29
 
But I'd say you should start when you're young. And I had a drive and I was a child to, I'd heard about God and I owned a meeting, so I went to church and did everything I was told. I never met him. Well, he was in a wafer, but I couldn't find him in the wafer. They served him every day at the altar. So I got to looking into everything possible, every ism, and never was really satisfied with it. I moved to something else. There was a break occurred when I discovered that I didn't really believe any of the preachers, anyone that they really didn't know. And it was all front. So that leaves you a lonely, very lonely feeling. But I kept on, kept on. In other words, how do you awaken yourself to something that you desire? You can't just use the prayer beads over and over and over and over. That'll just drive you into a semi oblivion. You'll quit thinking after a while, but you just keep an open mind and look for books, look for people, and little things will open up. And the thing that I discovered was that we think we believe and to believe is error.
 
sn1-13:25
 
If you believe it's error. I'm tramping on some toes that believe that they should believe faith is what? You can't have faith in something that slips out of your mind as soon as you the word you and, but you dig up your own system of self approach. You look in the mirror and say, is this guy outwitting himself as he ruining his life, fooling with religion when he could be out getting married, raising kids, and paying taxes. In the process of this pursuit, doors open. Now I can't, and I say, what doors? But the doors open. When the doors open and you get the capacity to cause things, then you're on the track and it's endless. I mean, the possibilities of things are endless If you want to play with 'em. There's healing people. For some talk about healing people, to me, it can be an ego trip and a person should never do it and brag about it or charge for it.
 
sn1-14:53
 
See, and this is a thing that I've found, if you charge for it, you become obsessed with the money and you lose your ability to think or ability to cause things to happen. And of course in this process, you cause something to happen in yourself as well as things that the public might witness. See? Well, so the only thing, I can't prove this, I can't draw pictures for you, but I'm trying to think how old I was at the time. I was 30 years old and I went out to Seattle to go to Washington, decided I'd get married. I knew a girl out there. So I went out to marry her. And of course after I got there, I discovered that she was a lesbian. And I made a jackass out of myself by making that trip because I didn't intend to live with a lesbian or her girlfriend, either one.
 
sn1-16:06
 
So I thought, well, I'll get out of here. And I went down. I got a room in some Chinese rooming house there. It was pretty reasonable. So I thought, oh, I'll get down to the library and see if I can get any good books out of the library. And I'll get back to my daily meditation. And there's another thing. You don't go through a routine of so many hours meditation a day. You do it until you get tired of doing it. You get tired of doing it. Take a rest, quit, get back to it because you'll always be hungry for the results. You'll see that there's a change occurring. So I was real free. I thought, this is wonderful. I thought I really made an ass on myself. And so I would come in and I got a job working nightclub there, and I'd come back and I'd sit on the bed and read Blavatsky or any books I'd get my hands on. And it was peaceful. So it went on for a while, and one day I was sitting in the bed and I got a pain in my head and the pain was such that I was convinced I would outlive. It was just I passed out in other words and knocked me out.
 
sn1-17:37
 
Well, I walked over to the window and looked out the window and I could see the cascade mountains, and I thought it was the most beautiful thing I'd ever seen, and I would like to explore them while I'm out here. I went through the window and went over the city and landed there on the cascade that hilltop, so to speak, a strange thing. I got to admit this. There was no snow when I got there. And I looked through the window, I could see the snow, but there was no snow when I got there. And I realized I was dead, that I knew that my body had to be back there in the hotel room. So I thought, Jesus a beautiful place, but nobody's here but me. And I thought to myself, I'd really like to see some of the people on earth. And at that time when that happened, some, I don't know how it was arranged, but people came up the sides of the hill and they didn't talk. They didn't talk. And I didn't see anybody I knew. But it, it seemed that when I wished for something, something happened and I got the idea they weren't going to show. There was no snow there either. But anyhow, I thought, what was it I wanted?
 
sn1-19:09
 
Oh, I'm trying to think of what caused me to come back. Oh, I've been saying to myself when it went up, this is everything. Everything's here. And that's part of the happiness. And then I thought to myself, what is nothingness? In other words, I gave nothingness a quantity or a characteristic of measurement. What is nothingness? And when I thought that, I fell off the edge of a cliff and I thought, I went through blackness and I thought, well, when I hit the bottom, I'll be dead. When I hit the bottom his bed, I come to in the lying in the bed.
 
sn1-20:01
 
And of course I got up and decided to leave. Seattle was as quick as possible. And I got a bus ticket and headed for back, for made up my mind to go to Cleveland first because I didn't know how crazy I looked at my family. So I thought I had a friend up there, and I'll stop at his place and see if I am still weeping. That's weeping. Quit, stop crying. And again, I don't know why there's nothing beautiful happened, but there was at the same time, there's nothing ugly having. But of course the pain from my head was gone. And so for left, I thought, I've got to have an answer to this. What's happening? I stopped. I went down. It was after dark. And I walked down the street and I saw a Catholic church and I thought, well, I'll go in there and see if there's an old priest in there.
 
sn1-20:59
 
That was what kind of a psychic sickness I got. See? So I knocked on the door and some guy about six feet tall, looked like he could have been a football player and a big sturdy young guy. And he looks down at me like I'm a bug. And he says, what could I do for you? I just looked around. But I says, aren't there some older priests here? I'd like to talk to an older priest. What makes you think you can do what I can do? Get on top of me that moment. This was a healing process. I was no more passive. I wanted to kill him if I had a gun. And I'd shoot him because for his arrogance, I'd come to ask him a sacred question. I'm in trouble and I need an answer. See? And this guy want to know why I didn't go to confession?
 
sn1-21:50
 
Well, of course, no matter where it is, it's unnecessary confession. You confess to yourself. But if you face yourself or you'll try to correct it, if you confess it to somebody else, you might say, oh, I want to get rid of that. I'll confess it. Let see. And so consequently, if you got confessions to make them to yourself and change your ways, that's all. So things run correctly and more smoothly. But anyhow, I got out of Seattle and I came back down and that's when I made up my mind that I would get to the bottom of this. I didn't know what happened. I knew that I died. I knew I dead. I I've even conceived of why wasn't God there? Why didn't I meet somebody in the church? You get the story that the angels will visit you or something like that. I didn't see any angels.
 
sn1-22:57
 
I did know that there's a creative ability to, a desire at this thing. In other words, what I saw, I saw a lot of people, but I don't know what they were. Phonies just, it appeared because I wanted to appear. None of them talked to me or something. So I got back and I visited a friend of mine up there and him and his wife, I went in and I was telling him about the experience and I said, what do you make of it? And what he said was, rose, I love you. Will you marry me?
 
sn1-23:43
 
And he didn't know what to say to show his concern. He knew something what I'd gone through when I got through talking to him. But his wife, of course had another view and she says, Dick, I think you lost your ego. They were both possibly right? But anyhow, from that time on, I decided to get to the bottom of this to get the truth of the matter, find out what there is about the immortality. And I felt that I had died and had some view of it. So consequently, I didn't worry about total destruction. What the average person worries about is that there may not be any consciousness after unconsciousness. You may never wake up. See, and that of course becomes a burden. And I don't think you should just take a burden and sit with it. I think if you want to be spiritual, you fight it out. You fight it out, you spend time meditating or experimenting or whatever's necessary.
 
sn1-24:56
 
But anyhow, I start making notes. I start to a contracting business. So I would have some money to eat on. And I bought a farm so I could hide. I got a farm down there, so it was way back in the woods so I could be left alone. And I start writing, I right, come home from work, I'd make notes. And that was the beginning of the first book I wrote. That was the Albigen papers. And people would read it and they'd get interested. And the result is that, that's me being here is one of the things. If I start talking at universities and people came.
 


=== File sn2 ===
=== File sn2 ===
File 2 – 32 minutes. Started at farm late 1960s. Some of them just looking for place to smoke pot. Set up TAT later. A few people serious, wanted to amount to something on an esoteric level. No great sages but they read the books. Established groups, Pittsburgh, etc. Giving talks. Goal is self.  
Time:  31:41
 
Speaker 1
sn2-00:00
 
Of course, it was one stage, the one stage where a lot of them, they were just dying to get into a place where they could smoke pot. And so they'd pretend to be interested in spirituality. Well, I left them, pretend I didn't demand they leave, but I didn't pay too much attention to 'em. Now that started in the late sixties and in 72 we officially set up an organization called TAT because you can't have things too loose. Nobody does anything. But what I discovered from it along the road was certain openings, certain little miracles if you want to call 'em that. And I was surprised. I was always been surprised by it. And I wish that in a way that the setting here had time for this.
 
sn2-01:07
 
I would show you, for instance, some of the things that can be done, but I don't want to take too much time at it. Maybe half of the evening. Well, people came down and quite a few of 'em wanted to amount to something on the esoteric level, but one by one they drifted away and other people drifted in and there was no great sages or anything like that emanated from it. But the fact was that they did. They read my books and I think that changed possibly a little bit and not a great revolution, but that's what's going on ever since then. And I get an opportunity to talk, I'd always go and it got it become 90% of my time practically, I lectured. I lived just in the panhandle, West Virginia. So I drove up to Pittsburgh and we had groups established. Somebody go off and they'd go to college or something like that and they'd start a group up in their area. So I got nothing done. But run between them, giving talks and encouraging people to look for their own definition. This is what it is. We don't know ourselves. We can't be self-defined. You have to try to be self-defined and eventually why? If you got enough good friends that don't tell you when you're making a mistake, that helps.
 
sn2-02:55
 
Well, so I've got some notes I want to talk about. The first question here is, where is the truth to be found? In the words of saints, in the discoveries of searching of the men in diverse stages of life, perhaps we need not die to understand the abilities of the human mind. There's a whole thing that if you can see changes in your own lifetime or in a few, not a lifetime necessarily, but sometime in your life, then there's hope that you can look further. It's like you go out hunting and it surprises you what you find.
 
sn2-04:02
 
Do we know the mind? Students of mysticism are often surprised by the discover of magical mental abilities, such as the ability to see x-ray vision. There was an article written up on that in a world magazine, and I got other discovering these instances and I became amazed. The power of the human mind. There was a man by the name of Joe S from Michigan. He wrote a little book of his own and he lived from 1877 to 1944. Joseph Sadonyy could cause it the lightning and not. That means the whole lobby, don't take the lightning home with us. You just see it. But regardless, it's unusual. So what happens? It's worthwhile that you take that. How did he do it? How does he do it? Why is this? It create lightning. He would count 1, 2, 3, and point lightning strike.
 
sn2-05:19
 
He decided that he would look into the stock market. So people encouraged him to tell him which stocks they should buy that was going get bigger worth more. And something happened. Something happened that he was trying to force something across. I don't remember exactly what it is, but he got ego. And when he got egos, the power left him for a year to the day just it seemed like there was a consciousness that was watching him and he was in fact, in that year of time, a year's time, he couldn't heal anybody. He'd be healing people. So from these reports, you get an idea of what something is going on that we haven't covered.
 
sn2-06:33
 
The mind of man has not reached a true knowledge of the human mind, of the individual's mental capacities. We don't. This is one thing we should realize. I think it's a shortcut. I mean, you can go out and search for the truth and if you continue you're sincere and dynamic, you just push and push. I say something will crack open. I don't believe in believing though what I'm saying now. I don't ask you to believe it. I think sometimes if a person gets, I've seen people thought they could see somebody heal somebody and they make certain motions or something of that sort and they go imitate it. Nothing happened because first of all, they had still had their ego too much, I think is one thing. It slowed it down. And the other thing was that they weren't sincere. They were just trying to attract attention.
 
sn2-07:40
 
The psychics seer does not divulge his method, that the healer does not explain his expertise so that the miracles are seldom learned by honest searchers. And I think it is not necessary. I think you can get the idea, get an idea of this, and some way down the road you begin with small things that you can cause to happen. And Sadony as I said, could cause lightning. And he would point his finger and count to three. And at three the lightning would strike. Now this is interesting. He's, his name is Sadony. I don't know his first name. One of the boys in our group went up to his place in Michigan, and of course he was dead. His son was 70 years old and he brought back one of Sadony's books. The son didn't know too much about his ability to create lightning, but he did accurately predict something on the stock market, which he said is what he lost his power because of it. He was greed. He went to help somebody else be greedy or something like that. So he kept away from the stock market after that. But I really do believe the man had a power, for instance, healing. I don't know the mechanics of it. I just know that these things happen. And if we're interested in the human mind, it's easy to say, oh, that's nonsense. He read that in the book someplace.
 
sn2-09:33
 
You start looking and you'll find it. You look in the Bible, you'll find instances of it. For instance, Christ was doing some function on what it was and talking to some people and a woman crept up behind him. I don't know if you remember this, if you've read the Bible, she was troubled with an issue of blood is what the Bible said. And she was desperately wanting to be healed. And she thought if she could just touch him, she would be healed. So she touched him and he immediately said to one of his or several of his disciples that were there, he said, someone touched me.
 
sn2-10:21
 
I felt my, what was the word he used? Virtue. Virtue. I felt my who said that? Yeah, he's heard it before. But the thing was you take this, you take this and what's it mean? It's simple. When somebody taps you, your virtue leaves your ability, your psychic and mental abilities leave because if you dissipate or lose energy from dissipation, your brain won't act the same the next hour or the next day. Too much dissipation. The man gets foggy. So this is what happened. This is a vital, there's something vital that permeated the body of Christ and also permeates every human being. And the ideas of course, that you don't play with it. You don't go out and do it to show off or you don't do it for money or you don't do it just for the expertise. And so little by little you get an idea that there is a mental, the place we live in as well as the physical place we live in, and the mental still is more powerful than the physical or the healings wouldn't occur. So you take that and you get down the line of realizations. Well, the first realization that you have is that there's possible to survive. And then after that, it's the function of helping someone else. Now there's a kind of a law. This is a law of sorts.
 
sn2-12:28
 
I remember a case of a person that was, well, there's accounts in the Bible, but I remember a case of a person that healed somebody and it surprised him. He didn't expect it. And I don't believe that anybody that does this, you don't do it with the conviction that you're going to lay a big egg. You have to see what, just say, wait and see what happens. There's no motion, there's no greed, there's no pitch for benefit of other people's information or anything like that. And what I'm getting at is these little things that you learn and become part of you when you desire to find out if you're immortal or not, your mind is ready to take on the problem, but you have to be been focused on something esoteric or something that magically affected the material body or the material. Was it something like lightning?
 
sn2-13:50
 
See, I know a lot of you'll feel like laughing and say that's it's a hot one, but don't happen. But he had witnesses and of course he made the mistake of predicting for one of his friends something on the stock market, and he lost for a solid year to the day he lost his ability. And I can understand because he reneged on his own, he had found a method of holding his head and focusing his head, and he played with it and it just left. Now, how many other forces are beyond that? I don't pretend to know, but I'm trying to get you to look for these incidents and reading when you're reading literature or biographies or something or to watch people, all animals operate intuitionally as well as people.
 
sn2-14:55
 
In other words, especially domesticated animals. We prefer to call this faculty instinct. That's a loose word we have for say the dog or the cat has developed instinct. All animals react logically or they couldn't be trained. Of course there's some animals can't be trained. Intuition might be called an instantaneous computerization in that it seems to sort out in a flash and judge and act from all the data of the person's life. History and more intuition may also involve ESP abilities and information from the dimensions, from other dimensions, from DNA and archetypal memory. The young was an exponent of such deep memory tapping, if you want to look into Young's books for book I, how many he wrote, the hearing of warning voices in the head are later corroborated with messages omens and seeing illogical reactions or compulsions as a result of such omens, which are later vindicated and justified.
 
sn2-16:44
 
The exclamation of a polonius of Tiana, I dunno if you've ever heard of the fellow or not, it was way back there, but a polonius was standing on a street corner and somebody walked up to him and he shouted, strike hit him again, killing. And this fellow said, Hey, what are you talking about? He says that the emperor's just been murdered. Now he was miles away. There was no transportation, there was no gasoline motors. And so in some following days or weeks, he found out that at that moment the emperor had been stabbed and killed.
 
sn2-17:24
 
Now, I'm going through this stuff because I think everybody here is bound to run cases of phenomena that are really striking and true. They come true. Now with this in mind is where we build our own source of miraculous is the pursuit of lifestyle, of rigorous morality in the face of no good reason for such or proof of the benefit it that you get for acting a larger section of the population. Believe that you bring down luck on you. That is the point that we're after. But we examined deja vu experiences to examine the intuition of knowledge of deaths in the family. A lot of this happens. Examine dreams that are precognitive. Why are they precognitive? And the fact that they can be precognitive means that this is something that we can use. We can don't just come back and say, isn't that strange or miraculous or something like that. But you find that you can adapt your own mind to the same situation that that person is that says, strike him again. You'll be able to pick up the fact that the emperor died as well as that man.
 
sn2-19:06
 
Now why all this? Why do we want to find talents for this thing? Because of simple fact, we're dealing with an abstraction. And the abstraction are things like the word God, the things death. We don't really define death. Does it mean that we quit breathing, lose consciousness and rot, or does it mean that we lose a body and gain another place to explore floor? The intuition leads us to believe and act before even a minimum of data is in. This happens a lot with people. What I'm saying, don't discourage it. Some people say, Hey, don't say that. Maybe it'll happen. Maybe it'll bring us bad luck or something if you're not evil. But if you're not trying to do something to damage people, it's not going to hurt anybody. Religion leads us to believe before the data is in. And by religion I mean all forms of transcendental belief about man's inner self, his soul or God, all of which remain unidentified. We have never identified a soul. We have never identified a God, but we believe, see, but that which religion impulsively postulates, science laboriously validates. This is something you'll find about esoteric philosophy. Science is validating spiritual beliefs down the road, sometimes decades or centuries after the original postulation is issued.
 
sn2-21:09
 
On the other hand, science or psychology are helpless without inspirational conceptions, a psychologist is not much good if he doesn't have any intuition. And I've spent a lot of time in studying psychology. Psychology and material sciences are so restricted and constricted that they dare not explore except in an orderly fashion and orderly manner in such orderliness will only prolong specializations. Now I'm going to mention a case that happened in this respect. I worked years back on the atomic submarine in Akron, Ohio, and we had a fellow there that was, he wasn't a graduate engineer or anything like that, but to move submarine to propel the submarine, they used a thing called k and a and they couldn't run water through the boilers because it was heated by, they got extremely hot. And I don't know what you, oh, I'll tell you what they used. It was a type of, what is it?
 
sn2-23:03
 
It was an atomic. It was an atomic heater, but it got the water so hot that there was an inclination to blow the sides out of the submarine or out of the tank. So the heat was terrific. So what they did is they used K and a sodium and potassium combination and pumped it through the tubes and they didn't explode. The water would explode, but the K and A wouldn't. So they could pump that over into the tank of water. In other words, they didn't have anything in the tube, the veins or the tubes to blow up. Well, they put the thing together and they decided that the K and a had to be pumped, circulated. Well, they put it in a pump. And of course pumps, most pumps have packing in them to keep the stuff from running out around the ends of the pump.
 
sn2-24:15
 
And that was grease and the K and A exploded to grease. So this ra just figured it out from common sense. They were a dead standstill. They didn't know that it was going to be able to find a way of running the motors on the submarines. And he said, run the k and a through the motor. See what happens. So in other words, they didn't have to have bearings and all that stuff. And the grease in them would catch the K and a would blow up the grease. In other words, the K and A would, you'd put a drop of water and it explodes it and they took the insides out of the pump or they didn't take 'em out, but they just ran the k and a right through it instead of on a leverage basis. In other words, they couldn't run it through a pump and they had to have it pumped.
 
sn2-25:14
 
So when they took out the stuff that had to be greased about the pump and just pass it through, they were doing it in business. Now this man, I was surprised about him because he had an unusual mentality. And I used, used to ride home with him a carpool and I'd ride home with him and one of the very patient people, because I was relentless. I wanted to find out this intuition. Where did he get this intuition from? He didn't know. He didn't know. I never forget one time he made him remark. He said, faith will move mountains. I said, I don't believe you. And he said, why not? I said, because the people on the other side of the mountain don't believe they're going to get hit with a mountain of dirt.
 
sn2-26:07
 
We torture each other going home from work. But I'm trying to get the thing across you that I don't think if you read in literature sometimes you run across some of these cases of unusual, what they call apprehension. You apprehend it. There's something here. And this now culminates in you finding a path. You find a path of spiritual action and you have a discovery path too. Just discovered something and aided the pumping of k and A. Then of course there's a, if we're going to get hunches or communication, nobody, nobody has ever said, but God tell us, or let's say some prayers and maybe it'll appear on a piece of paper or something of that sort.
 
sn2-27:13
 
The human mind is capable of picking things up and changing them. And it starts, the realization of it is very small in the beginning, but as time goes on, larger phenomena can be exercised. You find it happens in larger fields. And so I, I've seen this happen where a person, a man would cup his hand on a person's head when they had a headache and lift it away and the headache would be gone instantaneously. And this was for pains, almost any place in the body. And then I discovered that they could see them. They could see them, and this fellow used to walk up and point to the headache and he'd ask him, you have a headache, don't you see? Yeah. And he'd point to it, then he'd cup his hands over their head and take it away. Now this is not scientific. So this is what I'm trying to get.
 
sn2-28:27
 
I'm trying to show that there are a lot of things that aren't scientific. I often think about the fellow that pointed at lightning happened. After a while you get things happen and you can't quite rule things out. Especially when a bunch of people seen it, seen it happen. It'd be impossible for him to fake it because he don't know when. It's going to be nice if he could know just when lightning was going to happen at any points and make him look good. But what I'm getting at is we do not spend the necessary time to study the human mind. But with some people, those things happen automatically. And those are the instances. If it's possible to find the formula, you've got to talk to them. That's all. And I know the man that can see the headaches, but I won't tell you who he is. You might know him
 
Speaker 2
sn2-29:30
 
Well, where are we?
 
Speaker 1
 
sn2-29:40
 
I want to get in. This is a little, this sounds like something. Classwork. I've got the list of the, what I call visions, perception visions. Number one is normal sensory perception. We have many ways of perceiving normal sensory perception. We look as I see my glasses. I see that's normal. Number two, add normal sensory perceptions. These are visions apparently seen by the eye or the sensory organ, which will later prove to be invalid or illusory like a nightmare. Three mental visions or projections. That's a classification. And we conjure up an apple with diamonds embedded into it and you can see it. I use that as an example.


Reads from notes, interspersed with comments (starts at minute 3:00):
sn2-30:42
“Where is the truth to be found? In the words of saints? … Perhaps we need not die to understand the abilities of the human mind. … Do we know the mind? Students of mysticism are often surprised by the discovery of magical mental abilities. … “  Joseph Sadony (1877-1944) in Michigan. Psychic abilities. Power left him for exactly one year after experience with money (stock market). RR continues reading: “The mind of man has not reached a true knowledge of the human mind, the individual’s mental capacities. … The psychic seer does not divulge his method, the healer does not explain his expertise, so that the miracles are not learned by honest searchers.” Group member visited Sadony’s place in Michigan. I don’t know the mechanics but I know these things happen. You start looking and you’ll find it. Examples in Bible, Christ healing by touch, energy. Brain becomes foggy after dissipation of energy, every human being. Little by little you realize that there’s a mental place that you live from, same as a physical place. And the mental is more powerful than the physical. First realization is that it’s possible to survive. Next thing is to help someone else. There’s a law. You don’t do it like you’re going to lay a big egg. When you desire to find out whether you’re immortal or not,  your mind is ready to take on the problem. But you have to have been focused on something esoteric. Magic can affect the material body. Sadony predicted or caused lightening. Look for this stuff when you’re reading biographies. Watch people. All animals operate with intuition. Loose word ‘instinct’. Intuition an instantaneous computerization, reaction from all data acquired by person in life. Warning voices in the head corroborated later. Apollonius of Tyana, vision at a distance. Pursuit of moral lifestyle, déjà vu, foreknowledge of deaths. So why identify these talents? Because we’re dealing with abstractions, such as what is death. Intuition leads one to act before all data is in. Religion, transcendental knowledge always undefined. Science may later confirm. Science helpless without intuition. Example of non-engineer at submarine plant having an intuition about fluid transfer. Where did he get this intuition? Unusual cases in literature. Defining a path of spiritual action, discovery. Ability to see illnesses. We do not spend the proper time to study the human mind. Reads list of perception-visions: Sensory visions, non-sensory visions, mental projections, visions without sight (intuition), visions of mental processes (introspection), deliberate mental projection (causing things to exist).
 
If I say apple, you've got a picture of me. If it's a green apple, maybe it's a red apple, but that picture's there, you can also conjure up an apple and put diamonds in the side of it. See what I'm saying is this is projecting something with the mind. Fourth visions without projection. This is like intuition. You have visions or intuition, visions or sight. You call it a sight. Visions of mental processes, meaning introspection, it's as simple as that. You watch your own processes and what I'm saying is these things we should do. Everyone should watch their processes and not be fooled or deliberate. Mental projection. Now this is, there's cases available on this. They cause things by projecting them, they cause them to exist.


=== File sn3 ===
=== File sn3 ===
Time:  21:23
Speaker 1
sn3-00:00
Things that they were able to see. They were called topa and they also could do the Indian rope trick and cause a rope to go up in the air like a snake. And healing at a distance is another one. Psychokinesis perception without a body perception, without a body is, in other words, if you're the incident that I saw when my body was laying in bed, that's what made me put that in the catalog. I saw things that I confirmed when I recovered, so I didn't have a body, I wasn't seeing him with my eyes. My eyes was shot. My eyes was over and laying in the bed, what I was looking at was something else and there was some interior characteristic.
sn3-01:15
What is the basis of all human relationship and of all mechanical and spiritual work? Is it not the truth? The truth is what we're after. This is the relationship that we need on all this work, business, family and other contacts involving trust. Even the sexual relationship, will it endure if the partner lies and lies to cover up unfaithfulness? Can we ever trust our spiritual teacher if they lie to us or refrain from truthful? Meaning it's reasoning to me, can a person become the truth? There's a quotation about that. It says I am the way, the light truth and the light or something of that sort. He made a positive statement. He wasn't, didn't have it, but he wasn't. So consequently, I think that the translation of that, if it inferred that his body, his eyes saw even though he didn't know his eyes, could see it, could see something and be spiritual.
sn3-02:26
Can a person become the truth? Now this is the whole thing in a nutshell. You don't learn the truth, you become it, and the result, the way you become it is your lifestyle has to change. So that until it does become that, and of course the whole thing is that I don't say that you got internal revenue, guy comes around and said how much you make? I've lied to him, but I don't consider that lying because he's a racketeer of Cs. He go pick my pockets. But regardless, it's you lie to yourself is what follows you up. For sure. So I've got a list of these. I don't know how many of 'em you'll remember later because the most important thing is that I feel is to get as much before a person is possible. That it shows very clearly that we don't think that everybody thinks that we're capable of mastering a science or something of that sort.
sn3-03:52
And so what we have is reactions and of course what we try to do is get reactions that will be more harmless. I've got a list of questions now. Provokable thinking if possible, what do you know for sure? Does a man own a house or does a house own him? Does a man have power or is he overpowered a predator or a victim or both? Does a man enjoy or is he consumed? Sometimes they think they're enjoying things, but it's really consuming them. Does a man really reason or is he so programmed? Can a man learn that which he really wishes to by himself alone?
sn3-04:43
Can a man become, what do we mean by become? In other words, what do we mean by somebody becoming what? But I think, I mean if you realize a little bit that we change and that's the becoming, can a man become, how shall he know what he should become? Well, you have to dpe that out. What's important in your spiritual life? That's what you become. Why build an hills before knowing what an aunt is? I'm talking about houses. Why do we build conceptual towers of bebo about human thinking before we know that? Which thought is now, where's the domain of thought? It's psychology. They don't know what thought is. I spent a lot of time majoring in psychology. How can we dare to define thought before the knowing the source and cause of all thought? Where does it come from or the essence of thought?
sn3-05:43
You go back in the essence of thought, is this synaptic or is this plasmic? Where does the thought come from? And if it's a synaptic, is it caused by the prostaglandins or some other chemistry? When we describe bouncing, do you describe the striking object or that which is struck is thought. The process of bouncing or the object struck everything struck reacts with an opposite equal force. Can you start thinking this is something you can't start thinking and you can't stop thinking. You can wish that you had started thinking, but you're already that wish is thinking. See, in other words, I believe that the whole field of psychology is one big scam.
sn3-06:51
They just name words for certain mental faculties and it takes us nowhere is thought, something received or something projected. Some people project their thoughts, which people say that at least meaning all thoughts is thought a sort of somatic emanation coming from the body. Do we think or are we forced to think? Can we escape thinking? Try it. Sometime you are thinking about something you want to quit is negative thinking as commonly discussed, negative to man or negative to nature. We always talk about negative, don't think negatively, and of course then we should think why not See, why should we be positive all the time?
sn3-07:47
Does the brain generate thought like a radio generates a message? Comments from its speaker is thought limited to the brain? We never stop to think of this thinking process might be outside the head or the resolution of a thinking process. It might be outside the head and even to the point where somebody else picks it up. I've had people say, I know what you're thinking and they tell you what you're thinking. It's unusual, but I know people do that. There's people to do it. When a tree bends over and does it create wind by waving its branches, what are you doing for certain and what is done to you is what? The point is we cannot see the wind. What is telepathy? Does thought travel beyond the head? Does only the head think what does the vehicle for thought travel? We have no reassurance that all this thinking goes on in our head. It could be six inches behind our head perhaps.
sn3-08:56
Does the body manufacture thoughts or does the body only serve as a conduit? Where in the body are thoughts received during telepathy? When you're picking somebody up on telepathy, what kind of a thought is that that seep out of his head and seep into your head? See, we never think to question these things. What's going on in certain mental situations and where are they sent? Where are the thoughts sent? Do chemicals such as serotonin and other new road transmitters create thought or do they merely facilitate the penetration into our consciousness of strictly sensory data? Let me have to think on that a minute. See, where will the answer to this question? Lead us Multidimensional contacts, telepathy lead us to telepathy or communication with the dead because the thought is not limited the head, so therefore it can travel most any place. And of course you get these cases where a person has a vision of a friend of his a thousand miles away sitting in front of his fireplace and he calls him up and he says, were you sitting in front of your fireplace? And the guy said, yeah, you know that he saw he has the image. You'll read of this stuff at some time or other people have even tested it at a distance. Tested tele telepathy at a distance.
sn3-10:41
How many four hours did we spend analyzing our thought presses processes? Now this is of course as a point which is we were talking about mental discovery and spiritual discovery. This is important. We should think about it. You can't just read about it and then take the page and say, well, here's how we'll create thought or explain thought. Is it important to observe our reactions, thought reactions? Are we only a body or some of the people think that we're there's no spirit, no soul, just a body. Okay, so the questions there. In other words, what we should do if we're good scientists, find out if we're only a body and what part of that body is the seed of life? We can cut off an arm or leg or cut out and replace lungs, heart, kidneys, and still live, but life was in those pieces.
sn3-11:47
We can have our nervous system severed at the neck with paralysis except in the head and still live and think we can remain unconscious for years while the body continues to live. Noting that a person who is brain dead according to medical instruments can continue to live, breathe at times, recover and function consciously. These things infer that there's some complexity that we never give a thought to. We hear the cases, but we never give a thought and never say, how did it happen? Why did he wake up 10 years later and say, Hey, give me a beer or something. Do we think or imagine we think is our thinking automatic? We can't help it. We have to think that may be the case in some instances. I don't know. Do not. Our thoughts come before we have time to replace them. When we decide to search for the source of thought, why do we be become mentally wary or find our thoughts, becoming able to find objective or describable distractions but unable to describe name or systematize, the progression, origins or duration of a thought process. We just have never got down to measuring the thought process.
sn3-13:07
Is man only a blob of protoplasm which is programmed to react according to a schedule or is he a free agent? Ines, I get there. I'm talking about conditioned reflexes. I hear a lot about say, I don't know how accurate that is. Is he a blob of protoplasm or is he free? Our thoughts? Likewise, only reflexes from programmed or calculated stimuli. Who programmed? Who stimulated? In other words, we got this little thing called temptation, and these are, you might say for some people they're calculated stimuli and other people they're not. They just overwhelm them. What is thought? Can we observe our thoughts? If we observe our thoughts? Who is looking? What kind of a creature can see thoughts when we observe our thoughts? Are we not thinking about thinking? Is such a thinker? Someone who dreams of yesterday thinking he watches a dreamer or is he a detached watcher of past and present thoughts? Who is awake and aware of the mechanical man or basically mechanical men? And this is one of the things we have to do, be less mechanical.
sn3-14:31
What are we an animated body and a suppressed, stagnated soul? Do we have a mind or are we mind stuck? Or are we a programmed body in mind? Do we actually know that which we are doing? If so, why do we regret things we do? Does the meone insect animal or man know why it reproduces? And anybody here, you can ask that question to yourself. Why do you reproduce? There's no good reason for it. You bring children into the world to die and if you don't bring 'em in, there'll be less deaths. Does the meta zone insect, animal or man know why it reproduces?
sn3-15:27
I think this is really something everyone should try to discover. Find out why do we reproduce? Why are we obsessed for? Is that what all we're here for? Is this to produce another creature? Does the tree create wind by waving its branches or is it always moved by external forces? That's a weird way of pointing it out, but the reason I ask that is because we don't know. We can't prove why a branches move on a tree and it could be that the tree's waving and causing the wind. We never stopped to think of the possibilities, but in other words, there's a lot of things in life that we have explanations for, but we don't bother to stick with it long enough to get a good definition. Does the person seduce another or both seduced? I dunno if you know what I mean there. They're not responsible. People are not responsible because no one asks for glands. See, but if you don't watch what your glands do, they might hang you. What does the man do besides fertilizer or is that our function on earth? That men are fertilizers of women? So we got to be candid about it. Are you a hero or a victim?
sn3-17:14
Are you loved or are you consumed? Did you ever have it happen to you? You thought you were loved and you were consumed? Do you have possessions or are you possessed by them? Which is the more evidential and apparent to you, your divinity or your animal appearance? The lover might like you but you won't necessarily. You might have an animal appearance. That's what they're attracted by. If we wish to plan our lives, do we not need to consider while planning that it may all be planned and that we have no choice? How do we plan around that possibility?
sn3-17:57
We're convinced we're doing things and it's possible that everything that we did was seen ahead of time cause and when we define our limitations, do we automatically need to define ourself is another thing. Very few people bother to look for their self. What the self is? Do we discover more accurately the nature of ourself? How much of a human action is faded or predestined? Is the knowledge of factors of any value in the face of possible predestination? If predestination exists as no sense of blaming anybody for conduct, if we're predestined to do it, that's the way we're predestined to get killed, we'll get killed for following our instinct or desires.
sn3-18:50
Is all of our reality merely a collected belief, a paradigm? Now, Chilton Pierce brought this up. Chilton Pierce was a bit of a psychologist, but the whole reality is maybe it's a collective belief or paradigm. In other words, what happened? His wife had cancer. I dunno if you know the story. It is wife had cancer and he believed that she could be relieved of the cancer if they refused to believe in answer. I don't know. The result, I guess somebody may have followed through on Chilton Pierce, I don't know if his wife died from it or not, is scientific reality. Only a progression of events planned and expedited by a mentality of cosmic or spiritual proportions which utilize the mentality, egos and energy of humans.
sn3-19:52
In other words, we don't know who's winding our clock. We don't know who's putting us on the street to walk down the street even. What is life and what is death? Are these items ever properly defined except in terms of each other? Life is not death. Death is not life. See, hooray. We never find out for sure what they are. Individually we've never defined death or have we defined life and are these items ever properly defined except in terms of each other? Can theological facts be established by voting and others? This is what they do. They get together and they decide whether one of the saints had a cousin or nap. Pope went to heaven. God, what is life? What is death? Can theological facts be established by Bodhi? Is Mary the mother of God or is humanity the mother of God?
sn3-20:55
This is one of the sayings I'm picking up stuff that people like to repeat. Is God determined by victorious armies if his army wins and he's on God's side, but getting back about this business, this is a thing in the Catholic religion is that the busted version was taken to heaven physically. She didn't leave anything behind, and so consequently she had her body and outer space. Where are the commodes? She'd have to have one. She'd have to have a place to eat or she'd starve to death, but yet they consistently imposed that thing on people's minds that she went to heaven with her body. That would be a tremendous thing to follow and find out. What happens is God determined by victorious armies is virtuous, established by psychological edict. I mean we've got a science that's running wild running amuck called psychology is virtue established by ecclesiastical vote. If enough priests or preachers get together and decides somebody's pure or holy, and that becomes a fact or by the requisites of our S essence, is it established by sce essence? What is sin?
sn3-22:38
This is something that be, a lot of people are tortured by the idea of sin, an offense against yourself, an offense against your fellow man or an offense against God. I'm doing these things just to try to straighten out thinking processes and the outcome is an offense against God recognized by divine outcry, earthquake or cosmic catastrophe. Is it a sin meat? Are the animals our brothers, are they possessive intelligence and soul? Do animals sin when they eat other animals or are such planting animals? Pardon? For keeping ecology in balance. So we got find a little virtue in them. Now, is it wrong to kill except for food? If so, do we do wrong but not eating the people we kill?
sn3-23:36
Got to get those people in the battlefield. Do something with them. See who is knowledgeable about good and the item goodness is good that which we desire or that which is in itself good. What is the condition of being in itself good? Is evil the child of good or is it a twin? We got goodness. Then we have to have an opposite. If a man drives a horse through a plate glass window, it should the man be prosecuted of the horse. If a man steals to feed his children, should we prosecute the man or that which drove him? The children. If a man rapes a girl, should we prosecute a the man, the girl who tempted him or drove him, his ancestors for his genetic appearance or glandular inclination or the force that design manca, take it back to God.
sn3-24:37
God did all the dirty work. See, we didn't have anything to do with it. Perhaps I'm not saying anything positive. What is equality? Was Samson equal to? Delilah is a baby equal to a dying man? I remember one time I was given a talk up in, I think it was Kent, Kent, Ohio, and I said, I didn't believe in abortions and killing babies. And I said, it's better to, if somebody has to die, let it be the old guy that's lived his life out. Let's not kill babies. They ain't had a chance and I can't help but think it. People are embodied with a certain love for babies, a certain attraction for them. They're very precious. An old man with cancer is not precious.
sn3-25:40
Well, I had one of the fathers and one of the people, students up there coming to our meetings, he stormed out. He was an attorney. He stormed out. He says, I can't stand anymore of this out the door. He went. He didn't like the idea of letting the old man die instead of the baby or you only half of a plan by virtue of not possessing both sexes. I think sometimes a lot of the stuff that we do is the result of two different beings coming together and they got the advantage of two different thoughts, plans, ways of thinking, and is peace of mind more important than global peace or herd piece? Are you only a body? Are you rather a complex organism, a cell colony, a nature oriented bundle of conditioned reflexes? We've been hearing that stuff a psychologist for a long time. Were just a bunch of conditioned reflexes. Is the brain a monitoring station designed for that organism's indefinite survival? Or is our body programmed for death? Death gene by death. Genes or something like that following procreation like the corner and the wheat. In other words, when you start breeding the wheat gets corn dries up, falls off of the stalk. Is all religion and philosophy merely rationalization, rationalization, emanating from that computer to answer constant cellular awareness of death.
sn3-27:26
In other words, we write books and everything else to try to tone down the shock of death. The germ falls from a dying tassel in corn to or is the eternal belief in life after death and intuitive reading from that computer, a reading not completely translatable into computer symbols which are limited. Is there a soul? Did it exist before the body or must it be developed, grown, or evolved? The baby who cries at both of them. In other words, I so think that the babies cry because they're sorry, they got here. Prove the following mind as other than somatic awareness, we are using these terms. We never prove them. Subconscious mind, ego hid super, ego chakra, kundalini, titel, astro, etheric, casual body, aro, halo, ectoplasm, spiritual ear conscience, spiritual nectar. We waiting to these, digging for phenomena and that sort of thing. We run into a tremendous lot of capacity on the part of the mind.
sn3-29:02
What is time? Does time pass or does it passes space? Time is stable. Metrics, which we are only in which we are only transient visitors. How much of life is a mirage? Do we see this world infallibly or obliquely? Just because we see the world as say we're infallible in what we say. Are the senses infallible? Can you see or hear or feel or smell or taste? Time is time only a relative conceptualization. What is the reality of time? Does the ant or amoeba, I mean this is where when you get to thinking about the time for different types of creatures, we don't know, but it's possible that their length of time is much different than ours. For instance.
sn3-29:59
In other words, an walking across a board or a plath that takes him a certain amount of time, which may be we call duration. When a human being going across that same period would have a much shorter time and so a shorter duration. What does a lifetime feel like? Does it feel differently to a child and to an old person? And I think it does. I think it does. I think a child has a feeling it's going on forever. I'll always be thinking there. What is the relation to memory at the time? Do we remember a duration or measure? If we have no clock at hand, do we remember how long a pain lasted? When the pain occurred years ago? We don't remember much about pains. Why is that phenomenal? Would women become pregnant as often if they remembered the duration intensity of the pain of childbirth? This is where this thing shows up that it is basically part of the deal. Do we have a real sense of time when we hear a clock ticking? Do we then know what a second is or what stretch of consciousness exists for others? In a second? I.


File 3 – 32 minutes. Visions-continued. Indian rope trick, tulpas, healing at a distance, psychokenesis. The truth is the basis for every human relationship. Continues to read: “Can a person become the truth?“ Lying to yourself is what messes you up. “What do you know for sure? Does a man own a house or does the house own him? …” Etc – lecture of questions, interspersed with comments. Last question this side of tape: “Do we have a real sense of time when we hear a clock ticking? Do we then know what a second is, or what stretch of consciousness exists for others in that second?”


=== File sn4 ===
=== File sn4 ===
Time:  30:29
Speaker 1
sn4-00:01
A long period of time for an ant is what I'm getting at. And another something entirely different for a human being. Do the wings of the hummingbird move rapidly or slow to the gauging of the hummingbird? We think they're very fast. They may think they're slow to the time. Sense of a fruit flies is life. Long or short is a sense of duration or passing time proportional to the mass of the entity of that experience. Does time exist other than a fascination, which seems to be a brief or longer duration? In other words, you hear people say, time passed swiftly rushed by.
sn5-00:42
This is a understanding of that duration, and two people would have a different duration and then would get to wonder what's the long range duration of a lifetime? If the sun is our ultimate clock of earth rotation as a measurement, what is our measurement of time after the death of our senses? Do we change our measurement when we go blind or ears fail is time and illusion that prevents us from experiences self that has no motion. This is a thing that you sense a bit in the later years of life that ourself now is not ambitious and basically it has no motion itself, but it may cause it. Have you ever heard a cloth ticking in a delirium?
sn4-01:45
If the mind can be distorted in a delirium or in an LSD trip, does the mind ever understand the true feeling of a second? What is nostalgia? Is it the soul's view of a previous feeling? What is space? Is space interdependent with time? Are they not measured by each other? For instance, they call a light year. See, that's that's the duration of a point of light. Time is determined by spatial phenomena, rotation, duration. In other words, we count things by the surface of the earth, rotates. We call a day. And do space and time exist at all time except in reference to us? What is the understanding by insects of the distance to the sun of the moon? Can they look up there and see what's happening?
sn4-02:45


File 4 – 31 minutes. Continues with lecture of questions: Time for an insect same as ours, sense of duration, etc. LoQ ends at minute 5. Q&A. What is your definition of meditation? You are always thinking, can’t stop, observe it. We stumble around looking for ways to talk to God but we can’t find it. We read about these things but we don’t try them. Astrology? Never got into it. Greatest satisfaction? When a person takes another step. Put in an hour a day or so into spiritual work. One way is looking over your past and seeing what you did wrong. No real formula, magic. Q about the 2nd time he had experience. Don’t know why it happened. Suicide attempt as a youth. Gruesome symptoms of strychnine poisoning. Q about what caused experience when 30. Only will tell what happened, doesn’t want to embellish it with anything. Very beautiful place, could see anything I wanted to. Something caused this to show on the screen of my mind. Gives some details. Coming back, regaining consciousness. I knew that there was life after death. I was overwhelmed by the beauty of that place. I read later that spiritualists have an explanation, causal realm. For a week or so I couldn’t stop weeping. People say that a spiritual life is to find God. I never found God but I knew there was some power stronger than mine.
Do we have a true picture of nature? When we appreciate nature as being beautiful is such an appreciation of life or of death. It's like you go out and you look at the beautiful leaves. Autumn, that's death. See, have you ever watched the war that goes on in a drop of water in a cancerous tissue or in a cancerous tissue? You got some germs in there that's floating around. There's a lot of activity there and consciousness too. Evidently they know how to swim. How many pro zones are required to sustain the world's meta zones? Can they be counted? How many proteasomes are eaten alive every second by their animals or zones or whatever? How many microscopic meta zones are eaten each second by large events? Is death painless for these beings? Do they scream? How many small metz zones are needed to feed one worm for a day or one insect? How many worms or insects die every minute to feed the birds? How many worms are insects are needed to feed a pair of birds in their fledglings each day? How many worms or insects are in need for one hen's egg? How many that hen have to eat in order to produce an egg? In the summer? We hear the hum of many insects. Is this hum beautiful orchestral or a bedlam of screaming? We never really know.
 
sn4-04:13
 
Are the songs of birds more than just mating noises? Are not trees more attractive and autumn than when dying? What is the true destiny of all beings? A growth into individuality or a means of energy, food for higher beings? Predators? Well, I just use these to, if you want something to stimulate your thought, but we don't know what to think, we dwell on some of those things. We let's loosen up and answer questions or make comments long as they aren't too rough.
 
Speaker 2
 
sn4-05:17
 
What would you give as a definition of meditation?
 
Speaker 1
 
sn4-05:25
 
Well, I would probably say that meditation is personal thought, personalized type of thought. That's all we're thinking. You can't stop thinking no matter what you're doing, but that's meditation. We're thinking about it, but it's more personalized and wanting to know whether you're going to get across the street safely or something. Meditation is not strange to the thinking process. It is a thinking process
 
Speaker 3
 
sn4-06:09
 
Objectively. Thank you for coming. And objectively
 
Speaker 1
 
sn4-06:14
 
Say that again.
 
Speaker 3
 
sn4-06:15
 
It says objectively, thank you for coming objectively. I'm sure there'll be some that will come.
 
Speaker 1
 
sn4-06:23
 
Some will come. Are you still teaching in West Virginia? Huh?
 
 
Speaker 4
 
sn4-06:29
 
Are you still teaching in West Virginia?
 
Speaker 1
 
sn4-06:31
 
Well, I have a farm that we meet at and people come there if they want to go into a trance or sleep or chop wood or meditate or ask questions. So it's been valuable. Valuable? Yeah.
 
 
Speaker 5
 
sn4-06:59
 
For those quos you just said before, do you also think about them if you do have arrived to any kind of food you have? So if I think about them and arrive to the same, would I arrive to the same thing to Judy or not necessary?
 
Speaker 1
 
sn4-07:14
 
I really can't follow you. I mean, you're talking kind of low
 
Speaker 3
 
sn4-07:21
 
On the sentences you just gave us like you were reading.
 
Speaker 1
 
sn4-07:24
 
Yeah.
 
Speaker 3
 
sn4-07:24
 
Do you think about them regularly or do you already
 
Speaker 1
 
sn4-07:28
 
What? Know
 
Speaker 3
 
sn4-07:28
 
What's going on?
 
Speaker 1
 
sn4-07:29
 
No, no. I mean this stuff I read. Maybe you notice that sometimes I stop. I haven't read them for the last talk.
 
Speaker 3
 
sn4-07:41
 
Probably. You have thought about them,
 
Speaker 1
 
sn4-07:42
 
Huh?
 
Speaker 3
 
sn4-07:43
 
You have thought about them?
 
Speaker 1
 
sn4-07:44
 
Thought about 'em? Sure. Oh, there's a lot of things that I focus on more than others. I focus on phony religions. I think we've got phony psychology systems.
 
Speaker 3
 
sn4-07:58
 
No, I was just concerned if the answers, there are answers for those things, aren't they? Oh, yes.
 
Speaker 1
 
sn4-08:04
 
Yeah. And
 
Speaker 3
 
sn4-08:05
 
Will it be the same for me for you?
 
Speaker 1
 
sn4-08:08
 
I don't know. I don't know. Have you pursued most of them all the through? Have you pursued most of those questions you read to your satisfaction within yourself?
 
sn4-08:26
 
I don't think I've paid that much attention to them except to note. Except to note that they show the discrepancies in our thinking system. We get into things and do them before we analyze what we're doing. That's the whole thing. And they're read, of course I read them. I try to read them slow, but it's better if a person could read them off the paper themselves. They get what we do is we stumble around trying to find some way to talk to God and we never find it. We will swear on it that we've talked to him, but nobody even Sure. So there's certain things that you can't just because you think about 'em, you can't push 'em.
 
sn4-09:18
 
And in other words, one of the whole secret of miracles is allowing it to happen, not showing off and saying, look what I can do. And I called miracles. There's minor things that happened in their psychic life, and the thing is to be happy if it's good and if it's bad, look a little deeper and see why the thing has to happen that way. All while I'm talking, I'm trying to get it across to you that we have capacity. I ask those questions, but we have the individual has a capacity to do things that we read about, but we don't ever stop and try it. For instance, there's a case of we got his book down there. What was his name? Spiritualist in England, the name I don't know. He would go into a trance and float out the window. Two stories above the street. Who am I talking about? Anybody remember him? It was a medium of some sort. It wasn't nonsense. It happened. Well, what kept him up? What kept him from falling? I mean, there were actually witnesses that saw it and they go around. The people talk to him. Yeah, he could do it at Will, but I've got the book. He wrote a book about it in fact, and I can't remember his name.
 
Speaker 2
 
sn4-11:13
 
David.
 
Speaker 1
 
sn4-11:14
 
David Young. Right. Okay. So this shows capacity people. We have the capacity to do things and in a lifetime we never know how it's done. So no need to be surprised if somebody gets healed, don't be surprised if it fails. See, the idea is you can't force anything. We can't force any. We just robotic. So we got to have to try to get robotic measures of a little more developed expert robotic impulses or receptions. Yeah.
 
Speaker 4
 
sn4-11:58
 
How do you feel about astrology?
 
Speaker 1
 
sn4-12:00
 
Astrology? I've never got into it, to be honest with you. Yeah.
 
Speaker 2
 
sn4-12:11
 
What gives you the most satisfaction or I would say gratification in this point of your career or this point of your examination of life?
 
Speaker 1
 
sn4-12:25
 
Well, I don't have many thrilling adventures with the people that I work with, but I'm always feel better if a person reaches another step that is, in other words, I can't say why. Maybe I shouldn't like it or become happy, but it happens that I get very happy. I also get very happy when I see a baby. I love babies. I don't know why. So you can detect that by, huh?
 
Speaker 2
 
sn4-13:13
 
You can detect them getting up on that other one step higher just by sometimes without even maybe talking to them. Or
 
Speaker 1
 
sn4-13:22
 
Can you say that, oh, hey, the thing for them to do is not worry about me. Learn to push, learn to keep hammering away at it. Focus your thinking on it. And that's the reason I read some of these things out. There are ways of a person putting in an hour a day or so in some kind of spiritual work. One of 'em is examining what he's done wrong during the day, and the other one is making up his mind that he's going to follow a certain routine that enables him to think better or to perceive or to cause we could cause things. As I said in the beginning, we can heal people and you talk sometimes to people that heal and you'll find out that there's no formula. There's no formula. It is just magic, and it's something that you think about and if it happens, you rejoice if nothing happens back to the drawing board. But you don't try to make a business out of it. In other words, the only thing I can say, I can't say while we're trying to please God and God don't want us to do this. No, I don't say that. I just say that there's a time sometimes, but things happen better than other times. I don't know what causes it. I don't know what the time is, the difference of the time, but I mean, sometimes a person won't pick up things. There are a lot of people that are psychic.
 
sn4-15:10
 
But what I'm saying is we are talking about Zen, and I want to say this much about it. I've never been out of the United States. Oh, let me, I shouldn't say that because I've been, well, maybe not, maybe I've never been on the United States.
 
Speaker 4
 
sn4-15:42
 
The experience that you had when you were 30 years older, relying on the couch, couch, can you identify anything specific that triggered that IE What caused that to come about?
 
Speaker 1
 
sn4-15:55
 
You mean when my head had the pain?
 
Speaker 4
 
sn4-15:57
 
Yeah. Yeah.
 
Speaker 1
 
sn4-16:00
 
I thought I was dying. That's all I thought. So you
 
Speaker 4
 
sn4-16:03
 
Don't really know why it
 
Speaker 1
 
sn4-16:05
 
Happened or don't know? I don't know. I think one thing in all my life, I've been hoping that I'd find a formula. I'd find something way of looking at death. I took one time, I was around 17 years old, I decided to kill myself, and I took strip nine and I wound up in the hospital and doctor, I don't know if you've ever heard of strip nine and know what it does to you. My mouth was pulled back in my ears and my head was trying to touch my heels, and I thought it would be a very simple thing. I would wait. I'd just take a strict night. I'd be unconscious. The next thing I'd do, I'd be in heaven flying around with the angels. But what I had a vision of, I went blind. I went blind with it. The doctor came up, I remember he came up and he was, my mother was there. She showed up. I did it on the street. I washed the street line down with some stuff out of a pump water, and I wanted out. I wasn't doubt, I just fed up with the games of life. That's all. So he said to me, how many, he had a medical measurement of it. How many?
 
sn4-17:35
 
So much of these five grams I think he was talking about. I shook my head. No, I couldn't speak. I shook my head. No, that wasn't the amount. He said, was it a teaspoonful? And I said, yeah, it was really a table spoonful. And so he said, well, son, you've done a good job. It's a very helpful, you've done a very good job. He was in the doctor's office. They got an ambulance and rushed me to High Valley Hospital, and I passed out on the ambulance and I figured that was it. The thing was, of course, see, this is the thing of training children to think that the angels are going to come and get him. Then no angels showed up. Their name must been out playing poker someplace. But I got up there and woke up the next morning, I got these guys, three or four doctors standing around me and wondering why I recovered. They couldn't understand why I recovered from it. But the thing is, I don't believe it's time to go. That's all. I jumped the gun. They weren't through tortured me.
 
Speaker 4
 
sn4-18:58
 
I mean, not to say that I would just want to go out and try something to see what it's like. I'm just curious as to what you thought just initiated that
 
Speaker 1
 
sn4-19:11
 
What I thought about what?
 
Speaker 4
 
sn4-19:13
 
Yeah. I mean, I'm not like, how do you do it? I want to try it.
 
Speaker 1
 
sn4-19:16
 
Oh, no, no. I know that. I was just curious to what you thought made the strictly your wife will sue me. You mean what kind of thinking I had?
 
Speaker 4
 
sn4-19:31
 
Just sort of, is there any, I mean, it just seems kind of like, wow, you're just lying on the couch and poop. This magical thing.
 
Speaker 1
 
sn4-19:46
 
It wasn't a surprise to me because I expected, but I had a vision. A vision before I got in the ambulance of, I watched myself and I was lying in a casket and my hand was up on my chest or something, and I looked down and it started to rot. I mean, the process of rotting was part of the vision. And I knew then that I was not going to die possibly, but if I did, I was no way to stop it. But I never knew why, except that possible some entity or some organism. It prompted me to fight back. And when I saw that there was no hope of fighting back then, I just went unconscious. Yeah,
 
Speaker 2
 
sn4-20:47
 
I think he's trying to ask you, when you were 30 and had your experience, what caused it? Why did you have an experience? What factors caused that? What led up to that?
 
Speaker 1
 
sn4-21:02
 
I don't really know why. I don't think anybody ever a fly. Just the mechanics of it, huh?
 
Speaker 4
 
sn4-21:07
 
Yeah. I was just sort of asking as to if you have any clue as to what sparked it. Just the mechanics of what? Just touched that off.
 
Speaker 1
 
sn4-21:16
 
Is it taking the poison?
 
Speaker 4
 
sn4-21:18
 
No, I'm talking about when you were 30.
 
Speaker 1
 
sn4-21:19
 
Oh, yeah. Well, I don't TI don't know what really cost. The thing was that I had gone out to Seattle to get married, right? And it all through, it was ignorance on my part. I thought all women were saints and this was a lesbian, and that was the end of that trip. See, I caught her with another woman and I went down there for very long. So I turned around. I thought, well, I went and got a room in a hotel, was a Chinese, a hotel, was just a cheap place to, and had too much money. And I thought, I get down to the library and see 'em daddy esoteric books, and so I'd do some reading and I didn't expect anything to happen. I didn't expect anything at all that happen. I wondered why it had the pain in my head, that unbearable pain in my head. I thought, oh, this was kill me. Of course, the person said Not too long after that, I was standing and I went out the window, went right through the glass, headed up for the range of mountains up there. Yeah.
 
Speaker 5
 
sn4-22:59
 
So how could you be Sure then it was not just a mental thing going on.
 
Speaker 1
 
sn4-23:04
 
Oh, you can never be sure.
 
 
sn4-23:08
 
There's no way that when I talk about these things, I try to be as candid and just say what happened, because I don't tend to embellish it. There's embarrassment and stuff, but I feel that if you tell the truth and describe how you feel, and I don't know why I came back. I don't know why I regain consciousness even see, it was just a tremendous pain in my head. But you never know what causes it. I sometimes think that that was my time. That's all. It's my time to break through some information and that it was life after death because I realized that I was dead. I realized that, but I was overwhelmed by the beauty of that place and the potential, but I could see anything I wanted to see. All I had to do was ward. I found out later on reading some of the books by Spiritualists was that they had an explanation for that type of phenomenon. And it was causal realm. The causal realm. There's an astro body and then there's a causal realm. Of course, I took it with a grain of salt. I thought, how do they know? But regardless, when I come out of that, I realized that something caused this to show on the screen of my mind.
 
sn4-24:53
 
And of course I fell off of the high place, fell through black just like a jet. Black couldn't see out. And I thought when I hit the bottom, it won't be dead. When I hit the bottom, I was back in, dead back. I was cautious of being in bed, but, but I think that it was sort of a blessing in a way because I've always wanted some reassurance that there was life after death. Because you don't get much proof on this. It's very hard to get any proof that you survive death.
 
Speaker 3
 
sn4-25:38
 
Maybe that was it. You just wanted to see what you wanted to see. You saw it.
 
Speaker 1
 
sn4-25:43
 
You mean that I created it because I was hungry for it, huh? Yeah. Maybe you were just upset. Go ahead. Could be. It could be. Might've been part of it, but I don't know. The thing before it though, I was in so much pain that I thought the pain had killed me. I didn't conceive it. I was going to try. Pain in your heart, in your head. I had in the head. Oh, I knew that. Yeah. In your heart as well. Did that have, I don't know. I don't remember anything bothering me there. Except the discovery of, huh? Except the discovery of your beloved some time before. Could have been. Could have been. Yeah. Well, yes. That was the theme of my life. I wanted to know. I wanted to know if there was any hope after death. And it's difficult to cause it. You go talk to somebody else. There are people, there's a lot of times where people are, they're dead, pronounced dead, and they think they're dead. And you talk to people, work in hospitals, you'll find us. There's cases of where they bring 'em in and think they're dead.
 
sn4-27:08
 
I remember years ago when I was just a kid, they didn't take a body to the mortuary, to undertaker. They buried 'em from the front room. And undertaker would come down and take a hose and get all the blood out of your system and pump it out and make damn sure you're dead. Before they al me. So I just figured that some people do. They can. One time, this was a small village I lived in, and a fellow had some kind of a spell that he came over and he fell, not only fell, but he fell in a bucket and put the widget on his head. He couldn't get the bucket off and he stopped breathing something of that sort. But he surprised him all by now. They actually had him in a casket. They got the bucket off, put him in a casket, and he had raised up and asked for a drink of water. But see now they make sure you're dead to make sure you're dead. They take that blood out, they pump the blood out. So I think, I don't know the reason for all this, but I think there's an education and those things happen to you. You get a clear cut definition between consciousness and death of just unconscious death.
 
Speaker 5
 
sn4-29:06
 
In a previous lecture, you said that after you got that experience, you were changed through that. Faculty was really different. So that might prove that that might be approved. That it was not only a mental thing or
 
Speaker 1
 
sn4-29:20
 
Not necessarily. Yeah. You can change physical things. You can change, you can heal a person.
 
Speaker 3
 
sn4-29:29
 
So you just got that after that. How did you, after your experience, how did you figure out that you had kind of
 
Speaker 1
 
sn4-29:39
 
Help? I didn't. I didn't. It was quite a while after I had my experience. I was, for a week or so after I was coming through it, I couldn't stop weeping. And I got on the bus. I got on the bus. When I got further, got away from Seattle, unless I was tore up, I found the, A tension left me. But the thing is that I had a little conversation with you over there, and what I try to get across is that there is information available. This true spiritual life is finding, some people say finding God. Well, I never found God. See what I mean? But I knew that there was some power strongly than mine. We.




=== File sn5 ===
=== File sn5 ===
Time:  30:04
Check this note: Side 5 was 32 minutes total. First 7 minutes is repeat of last 7 minutes of side 4. Deleted from mp3 file #5. File 5 – 25 minutes** see below.
Speaker 1
sn5-00:00
There is information available. This true spiritual life is finding, some people say finding God. Well, I never found God. See what I mean? But I know that there were some power strongly than mine that could be tapped or maybe we could blame it on God. I've noticed this. For instance, I saw a girl, I don't know anybody in back there, know that there was a girl between you and that lady. Her head was hurting her. And I was going to mention it to her, but I thought, well, not now. She left, but I could see her pain from here. And this is when it is unfortunate the person has to have a headache. But there is a possible way to see that and remove it. And we don't know the mechanics. I don't know the mechanics of it. Just know that it happens and I'm happy it happens. So yeah. Could you have
Speaker 2
sn5-01:16
Seen that headache keep your eyes closed? Have you actually crossed?
Speaker 1
sn5-01:19
So I never closed them. I never closed my eyes.
Speaker 2
sn5-01:23
So you did see something? You close something.
Speaker 1
sn5-01:27
No, I see it. We have a place down. Every we should talk was like when people would come in and I could go through and put my finger on their headache right on the spot. And I don't like to talk about this. It sounds like I'm popping off or lying or bragging, but regardless, in other words, if anybody's got a headache here tonight, it's possible I can take it away for you. That's the thing as to show. But the only one I saw in the room is that girl there. I knew she was in some sort of pain.
Speaker 3
sn5-02:11
Mr. Rose, can you heal people from a distance or do you have to have physical contact with them as well?
Speaker 1
sn5-02:19
I've never tried to heal 'em at a distance. Never have. And of course, I don't know why it would have to be to close up because what's my finger? There ain't no magic here. That's been
Speaker 2
sn5-02:35
Able to pick up people from a distance. Huh? You've been able to pick up other people from a distance. In other words, even though you haven't healed them, you've sense, you could tell people have been at a distance if you sense they've been in trouble to be some long term.
Speaker 1
sn5-02:53
Oh yeah. I've been able to tell sometimes when a person to give you old say, I got to go soandso in trouble. Sure enough. But see, what I'm trying to get across is I led a relentless life against ignorance so that I could have better sight into spiritual things like a soul, know what the soul was doing, what was capable of having in it. And so consequently, when your whole being is reaching for something to define yourself by or to indicate that you're not spoofing yourself, that you've actually got a hold of a system or method, which is foolproof.
sn5-03:53
I very seldom ever had a person that I'd point to 'em and see, I see. I'd see the headache and I'd put my finger on it and I just like this girl back here, I could see her pain and I was busy talking, so I didn't say anything to her. What I'm saying is we are in too shallow water. Things are deeper than that. If you look, you've got to look deeper. And the main thing is you got to be candid. Don't make any great exploits out of it. You're just happy because it worked. That's the attitude to have. If it don't work, you back up and say what went wrong? Maybe it's not supposed to happen.
sn5-04:50
Yeah. What do you think about Phil, that the in connection with spiritual or mental, I'm glad you mentioned that. I should have mentioned it sometime during the talk. I believe in total celibacy except for the purpose having children and because sex detracts from the production of energy, real energy. And of course I find it, your mind's clear your mind's that way. It seems that fixation for the opposite sex gives you a lot of trouble. So it's a simple way to get around. It is. You quit. That's all. But it helps to be, ation can be a healthy relationship, healthy relationship. People with healthy relationships can get gonorrhea. Don't kid yourself. Yeah.
Speaker 2
sn5-05:59
You said earlier that it's almost a law, but because of your experience, you gained this knowledge or this vision and you expressed it as almost a law that you pass on this knowledge to other people. My question is how do you know it's a law? Why do you think it's a law? Who made the law? And can you break it? Or what happens if you break it?
Speaker 1
sn5-06:26
You forgot one thing. I'm supposed to pass it along good or bad. Right? But I wouldn't pass any on. It was negative. No.
Speaker 2
sn5-06:38
How do you know it's a law? I mean, it's not the only place I've heard it.
Speaker 1
sn5-06:41
Well, it's a law because it's predictable when something's predictable. In other words, if every time that you think of dollar bills, that becomes a fixation. And after a while you'll either quit thinking of dollar bills to see how many of you make. And the same way with spiritual matters, you see, you get the edge of it, you get something. It's like a hunch and you try it. And of course I'm saying, I do believe this man asked a question. It was very valuable. I didn't say it because I don't like to tell people to be Sullivan. But this is the miracle. The miracle is a result of celibacy, of my estimation. I don't believe you can live and have sex and drink and get drunk and that kind of stuff. And you owe anybody. And I can't tell you why. I just say, I just don't believe you'll happen. Somebody that's tormented, allowing the son be tormented, need another drink or need another sexual act or something like this. Your head's focused on the mundane. It's not focused on another field of action, another field of possibility. You said you went into,
Speaker 2
sn5-08:10
You said you at one point you went into the contracting business, but you don't talk about it as anything more than
Speaker 1
sn5-08:19
A means to end, right? Was that your approach to it? Going into it? Oh sure. I had eat. Yeah, I eat. So you weren't interested in making a profit? Oh, you about to make a profit. Why? Huh? Why? Well, because you charge them for your labor. That's the profit. Yeah. You start so much for, you make a bid, you bid on 'em, and you bid enough to pay for the material and you're so much an hour for labor. How long were you in the business? Huh? How long were you in the contract? Oh, a couple of years. A couple of years. I can't remember exactly.
Speaker 3
sn5-09:05
In your pursuit's, pursuit for knowledge, is there a discipline that is studied or used by individuals which gives them a universal understanding that when they reached a point of enlightenment?


Side 5 = 32 minutes total.
Speaker 1


First 7 minutes is repeat of last 7 minutes of side 4. Deleted from mp3 file #5.
sn5-09:20


File 5 – 25 minutes** see below..  
No, I think there's a discipline. And of course the discipline, one of the disciplines is the celibacy. That's to get your total focus on it. Because if you're thinking about making money or if you're thinking about making the girl next door, you're not going to have the power necessary to


I could see headaches. I don’t like to talk much about it because it sounds like bragging. Q – ever heal at a distance? I never tried. I led a relentless life against ignorance. When the whole being is reaching for something to define yourself by … (inaudible, will need headset). We are in too-shallow water; things are deeper than that. Q on celibacy. I believe in total celibacy. Sex detracts. Q on it being almost a law (celibacy). It’s a law because it’s predictable. You get a hunch and you try. More on celibacy. Was celibate at 17, saw it was a beautiful way to live. Consciousness is much more valuable. Was married twice. After a certain amount of sex you wonder what the attraction is. The attraction is that we’re animals who can’t control ourselves. Celibacy a healthier lifestyle. Married 1st wife when she already had child. Q – does enlightenment experience change what happens to you after death?  I don’t know. More Q&A on his experience. Later, card playing to get mind off illness, learned attitude that creates betweenness, how to hold head. Got all his money back. About $9,000 total. Would take everybody out to dinner afterword; magical; attitude of no greed.
Speaker 3


=== File sn6 ===
sn5-09:39
 
Have your thoughts
 
Speaker 2
 
sn5-09:41
 
Move.
 
Speaker 3
 
sn5-09:42
 
How long did you pursue these goals of understanding the truth before you made that final determination in your life? Celibacy with the,
 
Speaker 1
 
sn5-09:51
 
Well, I was celibate. You're going to put me through the membrane. I was celibate as a child, of course. And it was easy because? Because, no, I'm talking about I was 17 years old. I could have had sex if I wanted to, but it was beautiful. I had been in a seminary and everybody there was Sullivan and I thought, this is a beautiful way to live. Your head's clear. You don't want anything, you don't worry about anything. And that continued up until the time I was in college and college I met a girl and had a relationship with her. So I saw that was a wonderful experience to stay away from. You don't need that. So, because I realized consciousness is much more valuable than whatever happens in the pleasure field. I'm assuming that because you went into a Catholic monastery, you were a Catholic. I supposed to what? I was always a rebel though. Believe me. The sacrament of sex. That is part of the sacredness of sex. Yes. Oh, that's not sacred. Pigs do it. Dogs do it. That doesn't make it pro.
 
sn5-11:25
 
That doesn't make it pro. Well, you'd have to talk to the dogs and the pigs. I think it's profane. They think the dogs get something out of it. I'll tell you what it is. I'll tell you what it is. It's obsession. It's obsession. And you get, people get hooked on it just like you get hooked on booze. Sometimes you get hooked on booth, they find out that they're a slave, so they start drinking. They're unhappy with the situation. But I think there's a magic in it. I really believe it's a magic I, things happen that I can't do, even though I'm celibate, but I, things happen are favorable, but a long period of time. Creative sense. Huh? An creative sense. I had children. Yeah, I've been married twice. See, I had two, three, well, I had two children. My first wife, she had another child that wasn't before I met her. See my second wife, I had one child and I a celibacy regardless. And I find them healthier.
 
sn5-13:01
 
The whole thing about sex is basically after you do it so many times you think, what the hell? The draw. What's attraction here? The attraction is we're animals that can't control ourselves. You get the urge. We function like an animal. Well, if that's weakening you, then that's civilization. That's civilized. Civilized people, not just responding to an urge and you have to block it. That's all. You just have to, I find that thinking it's easier. Your health is better and you're like a free person. And of course it might sound strange. I was married, of course, I pulled some strange things. I married my first wife, I married her, she's pregnant.
 
sn5-14:09
 
I'm not kidding. That wasn't my kid. But her people were beating the hell out of her and she didn't have any money and she was trying to make a few bucks to feed the baby by diapers before it was born. And her parents were holy rollers and they believed that they should beat the hell out of her. And if she had a baby inside of her, could deformed the baby or something. And for the sake of God, beat the hell out of her because it's perfectly natural for people to have babies. So I went down to her house and asked her what she was going to do about the baby. And she says, well, I'm going to raise it. And I said, why don't you get married? She says, who in the hell will have me? I said, where? I said, I'll in about a week. He got married. I had two other children. Barr, the one by the other guy. Whoever he was was the smartest one on the bunch. Didn't flatter me too much. I believe there's, excuse me, I believe there's beauty in life, but at the same time, you got to watch it sometimes carry it too far you want to say.
 
Speaker 4
 
sn5-15:37
 
Do you think that making a spiritual discovery or having an experience like yours that already changes your after death experience?
 
Speaker 1
 
sn5-15:47
 
I don't know. I couldn't answer that. I could not see when things happen, when things happen out of the blue, if you're praying every day and that sort of thing, and then have an experience, I said, well, might've been the result of prayers or something like that. I wasn't praying. I was out there. I was out there to get married.
 
Speaker 4
 
sn5-16:06
 
I've heard you say before that people's after death experiences are not the same. Everyone does not find the same thing as that. And the implications sometimes about the importance of doing spiritual work and making some kind of a discovery while you're alive. Oh sure. The implication seems strong that by doing that you'll somehow improve the status of your
 
Speaker 1
 
sn5-16:29
 
After death experience. Well see. I can't prove that either. You take a gamble, if you think there's anything that's going to guard you, like an angel guard angel or something like that
 
Speaker 3
 
sn5-16:44
 
Of your feelings of your experiences for an after death experience. Yeah,
 
Speaker 1
 
sn5-16:51
 
I figured that. I saw what would happen. Very happy. I was very happy and I was amazed at the scope of it. When I landed there, one of the first things I thought was, I can have anything I want. I didn't want anything in particular. I did not. I like to seen some of the people on earth, but when they showed up, it wasn't my relatives. There were some people showed up, but now what cause of that was, I don't know. That could have been
 
Speaker 3
 
sn5-17:32
 
Make-believe. Did you see any of these in these since your experience in real life? No. You mean of these visions, the ones that you saw that
 
Speaker 1
 
sn5-17:42
 
Time? No, never. Didn't see them again. It's hard without getting a picture of what occurred, number one, the pain in my head. Where did it come from? That's what I never could understand. I can't believe that something pain is greatest and knock you out. Wouldn't kill you. You've got a hemorrhage or something up in there, see? So I don't know why that tremendous pain was there. And when I came out of it, when I fell, it's like I fell into a darkness. And when I came out of it, of course I was very unhappy and couldn't stop weeping. Stop weeping. And I thought I got to get out of town. And so town must be driving me crazy. Is
 
Speaker 3
 
sn5-18:33
 
This the darkness
 
Speaker 1
 
sn5-18:33
 
That brought
 
Speaker 3
 
sn5-18:34
 
You to this level? Do you think that this is the lowest level of the spirit?
 
Speaker 1
 
sn5-18:40
 
Well, I don't don't think it was that particularly. It was the idea that I had left the place that I thought was real. I thought it was real. Had you been studying zen before that? Huh? Had you been studying Zen before? Before? I have to figure. Oh yes. Yes. I was 30 years old when I went to Seattle. I Zen is rather complex and it's very simple, but it's complex. Just like we're trying to talk about healing. And I'll give you another example. This other course. Anyhow, I got Ill one time not feeling good. I couldn't shake it. So I tried to get out and walk us three, come back. So I walked down in the four or five blocks and come back home and just exercise. And so I stopped in a beer joint and they were playing re 25 cents hand. And I sat there and took my mind off of my trouble. Well, lost a little money. And of course I lost over a thousand bucks, I'd say before they got me the crazy ante, let put a dollar in a piece and bets went up. Size of the pot and all this thing. Well, I realized what they were doing. They saw through me that I had my hand shook when I had a good hand. So they'd bet bluffed me out.
 
sn5-20:34
 
So I decided, well, I'm put a stop to this. I'm going to call everything that looks anyway. If I get a decent of an hand, I called. And what they were doing were bluffing. I didn't raise them. I just called every time. Boy. They start losing. And it was like, just like a disease. They couldn't get back. I could tell you some stories about it. I didn't even know how to play Booker. I had to stop. And I say, wait a minute, our ACEs ones or are they underneath of a two or are they the top one on the deck? And they'd look at me and tell me the truth naturally. And ACEs were the highest card. I had five of 'em.
 
sn5-21:19
 
And a low card. Your low card was wild lowest card. You maybe heard about this stuff. And I didn't know if Ace was number one or it was number 13. And so they'd be betting. And you had a rule in the card game that you had to bet if you had a CI hand. In other words, keep from floating through and letting people bet for you and then play ignorant and rake you more money. But if you really put out a bet, they'd say, well, he's got something. But with me, I couldn't hide it. I couldn't hide it. They knew what I had generally, but I just got real honest with them. I'd say, give me a king. And they'd flip the card and there'd be a king. I'd have two ACEs. I'd say, I need another A card, be an ace. And it was uncanny. I've seen the guys get up and eat the cards. It get so frustrated and chew the cards. That one a new deck. Maybe I'm reading the back of or something.
 
sn5-22:39
 
But I'll tell you, it got my mind off of my illness. And I got my money back in maybe 9,000 more. I had a fall of them. They were doing the bet and I had to call them. So we'd go over across the river into Ohio and I'd buy a mistake dinner with their money. But to me it was magic. It was really magic. I literally asked for, they were dealing, not me. They'd be dealing and I'd say, give me an name, give me this. I get it. And I tell you, they got pretty upset too.
 
sn5-23:21
 
I didn't deal. I didn't know how to deal. I didn't want to deal with it. I left a deal. They'd been accusing me of stacking the deck. But this to me was, this was magical. It had to be, I didn't even know the power. I thought if I've got, for instance, if you got the low card and wild, did ever play that game, huh? No. Well, you just like this poker, but you play the lowest card in your hand is the wild card. So if you get two threes and you want to pick up another pair like Jacks, that'd be four jacks. But if you hit a two, you got three threes. You know what I mean? So I had to stop and ask them questions. So that's another stupid I then stop me from, couldn't stop me from winning. Yeah. But I believe in this that there's a tremendous lot of things you can do. Number one, if you're not being greedy or if you're not trying to cheat or something like that, I was trying to pass some time, forget about my illness, see? And so I just thought, well, I had to get back home and get some more money.
 
sn5-24:50
 
They cleaned me out. But then I thought, well I'll make sure. I'll make them show their cards. I'll call. And that's what wrecked. And it kept on. I mean it kept on I one, they didn't accuse me of something. They couldn't accuse me of anything. I wouldn't deal. I knew that, but I was amazed by it. That's all amazed by it. And like I said, I'll tell you an instance. When I met a girl, when I was getting ready to marry her, and I would sit with a person like I face, she get pulled up a chair and I'd sit, I'll tell you what was wrong with your health. And she was sitting across from me. Now there's some boys back there that know this party talking about they can corroborate this. And I saw a pair of, I saw a string of beads across her chest was inside someplace.
 
sn5-26:00
 
I thought, this is crazy. You could see little things like a thread between them. The thread wasn't extended as much as the beads. And then I saw from her, this part of her belly down all black. And I said to her, I said, you got some, are you wearing beads or anything underneath your address? She said, no. I told her, I said, I've seen something strange there. And I told her about the other part of her body being black. And she said, well, she just come down from Pittsburgh. She'd been living up there. She says, I'll you back up. I had an x-ray taken for some reason, I'll go and pick up the x-ray. And she brought it back and the reading would come with it. She had a line called the line of these aneurysms. No, no, they were granuloma. Huh? Granuloma. Granuloma. Yeah.
 
sn5-27:09
 
Granuloma a line of granuloma and a diagonal. Hold that out. Diagonal line across her chest. So I knew that I wasn't killing myself. Of course they only did the X-rayed her lung, not the lower body. See? So what happened is she developed two female trouble. Her uterus growed to her backbone. And that was, I didn't know what it was, but that's what I found out later about that region. So of course I don't say you can just do that. I always was tongue in cheek that I try it. See, but we'd have these CH tacos we call them. I'd see if people would've headaches and go put a finger on it. Right? On the point of it hurt. But now this is, where'd it come from? I don't know. I'm happy. I'm happy that I can do it, that I help somebody. And sometimes I think I'm bound to miss someday and see something that really didn't exist. But I never did. I never did. And I could go through a crowd of people and if they got a pain, I can see it, take it away. What's the procedure? I don't know. But the thing is that you just do it. You do it because it helps. It helps. And you don't charge. You don't charge. I mean, I'm happy. That's good enough for me. The fact that when it happens, that's
 
Speaker 3
 
sn5-29:20
 
Running out of time.
 
Speaker 2
 
sn5-29:26
 
People still have questions free perhaps talk
 
Speaker 1
 
sn5-29:30
 
Down front. We're out. We'll throw us out here. We throw it out. Do you? Well, we got plenty of time to hit the door. Feel free to. Sure.


** NOTE:  Files 5 and 6 were spliced together. 25 + 5 = 30 minutes total.
Speaker 2


File 6 = 5 minutes** see below. I was amazed by it.
sn5-29:48


On seeing illness:  I met a girl, was getting ready to marry, saw string of beads across chest. X-rays later confirmed granuloma. Has happened at farm and during Chautauquas. Where this comes from I don’t know. Just obey the hunch, you’re helping someone.  
Also, Mr. Rose speaking at Chapel Hill on Wednesday night. Yes. Out on the table this coming Wednesday. Okay.


Follow-up meeting at Chapel Hill announced.  
=== File sn6 ===
NOTE: Files 5 and 6 were spliced together. 25 + 5 = 30 minutes total. File 6 = 5 minutes** see below. I was amazed by it.  


== Footnotes ==
== Footnotes ==

Revision as of 01:33, 4 January 2026

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Metadata repository: https://data.direct-mind.org/

Data Template

Title 1993-1101-NC-State-University-Raleigh-November
Recorded date Nov. 11, 1993
Location NC-State-University-Raleigh
Number of tapes 3 cassettes: Tape 1 (side 1 = 32 minutes; side 2 = 32 minutes)

Tape 1 (side 3 = 32 minutes; side 4 = 31 minutes) Tape 3 (side 5 = 32 minutes; side 6 = xx minutes)

Other recorders audible?
Alternate versions exist?
Source
No. of MP3 files 6 including introduction, file #0

On first pass there were files 0 thru 6 = 7 files. See notes below: Files 5 and 6 were spliced together, so 0 thru 5 = six files

Total time
Transcription status Auto-AI was Nov 19, 2025, pasted here on Jan 4, 2026
Link to distribution copy http://distribution.direct-mind.org/ (need password)
Link to PDF http://distribution.direct-mind.org/ Or try http://selfdefinition.org/rose/
Published in what book?
Published on which website?
Remarks
Audio quality Audio quality mostly good. Side 5 and 6 are muddy (timbre of voice, RR says he has a cold).
Identifiable voices George, Shawn (?), Bart
URL at direct-mind.org https://www.direct-mind.org/index.php/1993-1101-NC-State-University-Raleigh-November
For access to this wiki or the audio files please send an email to: editors@direct-mind.org
Revision timestamp 20260104013358

To Do

Notes

SEE TALK PAGE

Same as video of same date?

Is video the same as the Mr Rose video, supposedly from 1991?

File sn0 -- 5:40

File sn1 -- 25:43

File sn2 -- 31:41

File sn3 -- 31:23

File sn4 -- 30:29

File sn5 -- 30:04 First 7 minutes is repeat of last 7 minutes of side 4. Deleted from mp3 file #5. File 5 – 25 minutes** see below..

Transcription

File sn0

Time: 5:40


Speaker 1

sn0-00:00

George Buehler: At the Zen Master. Some of you may have attended that lecture in the past, and it caught my attention immediately, firstly, because, well, OG tells some amazing stories. He told some stories about an old man in West Virginia who just happened to be a zen master and the most unlikely zen master since he was an American, was born, raised in West Virginia, was not into beads and robes, and most of the other things you might associate with the whole word Zen. Instead, he told a story about a man who had spent his life in a relentless search for the truth, and a man who after years of searching, had finally found it in an experience that culminated in what the Eastern philosophies like Zen referred to as enlightenment or satori.

sn0-01:00

It's an experience that many religious traditions recognize, and it's essentially the answer to the big questions. Now, I was very interested at this point because I was a freshman and like most freshmen, I was trying to figure out what to do with my life, and this seemed like the perfect opportunity because most Zen masters you might hear of, tend to be in books, tend to be dead, tend to be a long way away, and also very Eastern and esoteric and difficult to understand. And Mr. Rose was none of these things. He was alive, he was in driving distance, and he was very western, very easy to understand, at least from what I'd heard. So I got to know Augie, and then later on I went up to West Virginia and met Mr. Rose, and I'm not quite sure what I was expecting to see from Mr. Rose. All I can say is that in the years I've come to know Mr. Rose, he has been outside of and beyond any expectations I could have had. There are a lot of things about Mr. Rose. I could mention his devastating sense of humor, which tends to catch a lot of people with their pants down and his totally unpretentious style of teaching, which makes it very, very western, very accessible. And he's just a very friendly man, a very easy man to get to know.

sn0-02:27

But I don't think those things really summarize or the essence of what Mr. Rose in his life has been. I think the trait that characterizes Mr. Rose also happens to be the trait that Mr. Rose feels is most essential to someone pursuing some sort of spiritual path, and that is relentless perseverance. Mr. Rose's whole life has been one long, relentless, uncompromising search for the truth at any price. His search began in his childhood when he was about 12 years old. He joined a Capuchin monastery in Pennsylvania because he wanted to get nearest to those people. He was led to believe, had some answers, and if these folks knew God well, that's the folks he wanted to hang around with. He got his education there and spent, I don't know, about five years there. Eventually he left because he became convinced that the monks there knew no more about God than he did and had no privileged information.

sn0-03:29

From there, he went on to any source that seemed to have any kind of promise for giving answers. He went to college, studied physics and chemistry, and tried to find an answer perhaps through a materialistic approach. Later on, he found out that had flaws since the materialistic paradigm tends to be really good at cataloging things, but not all that good at explaining why things are or what your life should be. From there, he went on to all sorts of esoteric traditions. He went through spiritualism, yoga, Zen, anything he could find that held some promise of giving a direct answer to these kinds of questions. And it was only after intense years of seeking that he finally came to an answer. And since then, rose has taken all of that persevering dynamic energy and turned it towards trying to help other people. When he was seeking, he made a promise because he met so many hucksters, so many people who had partial truths or were just trying to fleece people, take advantage of people who were honestly searching for answers.

sn0-04:39

He met so much of those hucksters in his seeking that he promised if he ever found anything genuine, if he ever found something he could share, he would share it with people and share it at no cost and whatever price. So long as people would listen, he would talk to people. So in doing that, he's written a number of books. He's written the Algin papers, the Direct Mind experience, and the Psychology, the Observer amongst other books, and he's opened up his life to anyone who care to come check him out. He's donated 186 acre farm to the use of the TAT Foundation, which is a national organization that he helped to start to encourage people to search for answers for themselves and to take this quest in earnest. So without further ado, I'd like to introduce Mr. Richard Rose.

File sn1

Time: 25:43

Speaker 1

sn1-00:00

R: Well, I think he's about covered it. We might as well go home.

It is pretty difficult to give you a picture, a real picture of Zen, but I do want to talk about it a little because it's not talked about much. And I had found a Zen teacher. I didn't go to Tibet, I've never been out of the country, but I found this fellow in New York City and I was kind of surprised he'd been referred to me as a teacher of Zen and I corresponded with him for a couple years. You pick up things. There was never any statistics or anything like that given any history of Zen. He went right to work on the business of sorting reality from garbage or sorting the truth from, let's say, making a racket out of the education that zen is. So I must admit that I knew he had a teacher that was in this country also. He worked without fee. There was absolutely no, and you build a certain superstition about money after a while. I don't believe that.

sn1-02:03

First of all, I don't believe in violating friendship. And when you're standing up talking to somebody or you're talking to them over a period of years, you can't play the huckster. You face the truth and possibly state the truth if that helps a person understand anything, whether his reason for being here and his inability to leave here or do something with his life that he wouldn't be satisfied with. So I got quite acquainted with the Tibetan form of Buddhism and Zen as well. And it was nothing more than a perpetual persistent questioning of yourself, whether you're real or not, or whether you have something that somebody else might want to hear. But the main thing is to find the truth. The truth isn't something that you get by somebody giving you a third degree. This is something you listen to all the isms that exist and try to find if there is any of them that has the truth in it.

sn1-03:32

And when if you dig, dig far enough while you find out that there's always a little bit of ality, I wouldn't say what's happening in Tibet, whether I suspected even in Tibet, there's ality, but not necessarily among the people who were following a zen mind. And so consequently, you get whatever books you can get your hands on to determine if there is an immortal soul. And it's worth chasing trying to find out and the process of which you have to read a lot of perhaps spiritual literature. But there's another way. There's another way. If for instance, I've went through all the sacred books of religion and I came away with no assurance that I had any proof that this stuff was real. See down goes through translations, and some of it may be deliberately a setup. So as when you progress into this, the more you focus on it, the more you become something and you get surprises along the road.

sn1-04:58

A person I've heard stories, for instance, I dunno if you've ever heard of iff, was I considered the first psychologist, psychiatrist, or whatever you want to call him from Europe. He had a profound view of the human mind and he examined the movements over in Asia also. And some of the people that wanted to find the truth, the answer to life and death were placed in a cell and they were handed a loaf of bread once a day and they stayed there until they found the answer. And good many of 'em died there. And he would say they'd pull the carcass out and scraped the floors and scrubbed the floors and put somebody else in place because this is how serious it is to find the truth because too much depends on it. And we are always disappointed with our lifestyle. No matter what you do. Somewhere down along the line you'll find that you miss something or you fool yourself. And this is socially, philosophically as well. So the thing is, is to get a means of checking stuff out. Don't accept it until you can check it out to your satisfaction. Now, there are exercises you can practice reading books and that sort of thing to get your mind on a certain subject. But what happens, there's kind of a little added benefit as you go along. And that is you find gifts.

sn1-06:56

Things happen to you that are favorable is what I'm saying. And little by little you get an idea that you're getting fed some information, valuable information, it comes about slowly. At least it did for me. I can't speak for everybody. And this is something happens that proves to you beyond a shadow of a doubt that you're not going to die. And in other words, you make the trip and return. This is one of the things that happens. The other one is that of course, that you have certain faculties, and I don't think that they're germane to the health of a person or anything like that. There's no reason why except that you can do things and you may not know why at the time you don't know the procedure. In other words, people can become healed and they can say, it came from this or that, it come from God almighty, or it came from a doctor's formula or they want to say.

sn1-08:07

But if people can be healed, and this is the principle of this shocking people into spiritual knowledge, you just don't dream about it. You just don't join a group of people and they all get together and chant. We know it all. Say each individual has to work by himself and fight it through. And the biggest part of the time, if you're not persistent, you'll think, Hey, I got to get away from this stuff because I don't have an answer. I'm not getting the answers. I'm just a body that's going to die someday. And I say this after examining all the scriptures too incidentally, it's possible you're just a body and nothing much. You're not worth much. See, and even for humanity, you're not worth much. But then one day comes along and you find out that you're real. And possibly, I can't say forever, but I do know that people survive death, at least certain people do. And then there's, I would, of course, I want to keep on the target here today, but sometime I'd like to be in a position where I could show you the ability to find illnesses and take them away.

sn1-09:43

This has nothing to do with zen, but it has to do in the pursuit of knowledge and truth, things come along that you don't ask for. And what the reason for it. I don't argue. It's possible that it gives us an impetus then to say, oh, this is wonderful. Let's get in deeper. Let's go for the big answers, or let's see how far we can carry this in the decision whether you're immortal or not. And the next thing is that you'll find that you can affect things. Now, again, I don't know. I have no assurance that this stuff is taught in Tibet. All I know about Tibet is that they have a shock system that you either focus on what you want and get it, or you stay in that cell and rot and shovel you out. So that is an accomplishment if the guy breaks through. Of course, I don't have any, no way I have any contact with the statistics of Tibet, but I do know that people went over there like Ger and found out that it's a rough deal. I mean, you don't play around with it. You can't bribe them. You can't bribe anybody. Even if you could, it wouldn't help you. So the one thing that I would like to convey to people are these things that every person can acquire.

sn1-11:29

But I'd say you should start when you're young. And I had a drive and I was a child to, I'd heard about God and I owned a meeting, so I went to church and did everything I was told. I never met him. Well, he was in a wafer, but I couldn't find him in the wafer. They served him every day at the altar. So I got to looking into everything possible, every ism, and never was really satisfied with it. I moved to something else. There was a break occurred when I discovered that I didn't really believe any of the preachers, anyone that they really didn't know. And it was all front. So that leaves you a lonely, very lonely feeling. But I kept on, kept on. In other words, how do you awaken yourself to something that you desire? You can't just use the prayer beads over and over and over and over. That'll just drive you into a semi oblivion. You'll quit thinking after a while, but you just keep an open mind and look for books, look for people, and little things will open up. And the thing that I discovered was that we think we believe and to believe is error.

sn1-13:25

If you believe it's error. I'm tramping on some toes that believe that they should believe faith is what? You can't have faith in something that slips out of your mind as soon as you the word you and, but you dig up your own system of self approach. You look in the mirror and say, is this guy outwitting himself as he ruining his life, fooling with religion when he could be out getting married, raising kids, and paying taxes. In the process of this pursuit, doors open. Now I can't, and I say, what doors? But the doors open. When the doors open and you get the capacity to cause things, then you're on the track and it's endless. I mean, the possibilities of things are endless If you want to play with 'em. There's healing people. For some talk about healing people, to me, it can be an ego trip and a person should never do it and brag about it or charge for it.

sn1-14:53

See, and this is a thing that I've found, if you charge for it, you become obsessed with the money and you lose your ability to think or ability to cause things to happen. And of course in this process, you cause something to happen in yourself as well as things that the public might witness. See? Well, so the only thing, I can't prove this, I can't draw pictures for you, but I'm trying to think how old I was at the time. I was 30 years old and I went out to Seattle to go to Washington, decided I'd get married. I knew a girl out there. So I went out to marry her. And of course after I got there, I discovered that she was a lesbian. And I made a jackass out of myself by making that trip because I didn't intend to live with a lesbian or her girlfriend, either one.

sn1-16:06

So I thought, well, I'll get out of here. And I went down. I got a room in some Chinese rooming house there. It was pretty reasonable. So I thought, oh, I'll get down to the library and see if I can get any good books out of the library. And I'll get back to my daily meditation. And there's another thing. You don't go through a routine of so many hours meditation a day. You do it until you get tired of doing it. You get tired of doing it. Take a rest, quit, get back to it because you'll always be hungry for the results. You'll see that there's a change occurring. So I was real free. I thought, this is wonderful. I thought I really made an ass on myself. And so I would come in and I got a job working nightclub there, and I'd come back and I'd sit on the bed and read Blavatsky or any books I'd get my hands on. And it was peaceful. So it went on for a while, and one day I was sitting in the bed and I got a pain in my head and the pain was such that I was convinced I would outlive. It was just I passed out in other words and knocked me out.

sn1-17:37

Well, I walked over to the window and looked out the window and I could see the cascade mountains, and I thought it was the most beautiful thing I'd ever seen, and I would like to explore them while I'm out here. I went through the window and went over the city and landed there on the cascade that hilltop, so to speak, a strange thing. I got to admit this. There was no snow when I got there. And I looked through the window, I could see the snow, but there was no snow when I got there. And I realized I was dead, that I knew that my body had to be back there in the hotel room. So I thought, Jesus a beautiful place, but nobody's here but me. And I thought to myself, I'd really like to see some of the people on earth. And at that time when that happened, some, I don't know how it was arranged, but people came up the sides of the hill and they didn't talk. They didn't talk. And I didn't see anybody I knew. But it, it seemed that when I wished for something, something happened and I got the idea they weren't going to show. There was no snow there either. But anyhow, I thought, what was it I wanted?

sn1-19:09

Oh, I'm trying to think of what caused me to come back. Oh, I've been saying to myself when it went up, this is everything. Everything's here. And that's part of the happiness. And then I thought to myself, what is nothingness? In other words, I gave nothingness a quantity or a characteristic of measurement. What is nothingness? And when I thought that, I fell off the edge of a cliff and I thought, I went through blackness and I thought, well, when I hit the bottom, I'll be dead. When I hit the bottom his bed, I come to in the lying in the bed.

sn1-20:01

And of course I got up and decided to leave. Seattle was as quick as possible. And I got a bus ticket and headed for back, for made up my mind to go to Cleveland first because I didn't know how crazy I looked at my family. So I thought I had a friend up there, and I'll stop at his place and see if I am still weeping. That's weeping. Quit, stop crying. And again, I don't know why there's nothing beautiful happened, but there was at the same time, there's nothing ugly having. But of course the pain from my head was gone. And so for left, I thought, I've got to have an answer to this. What's happening? I stopped. I went down. It was after dark. And I walked down the street and I saw a Catholic church and I thought, well, I'll go in there and see if there's an old priest in there.

sn1-20:59

That was what kind of a psychic sickness I got. See? So I knocked on the door and some guy about six feet tall, looked like he could have been a football player and a big sturdy young guy. And he looks down at me like I'm a bug. And he says, what could I do for you? I just looked around. But I says, aren't there some older priests here? I'd like to talk to an older priest. What makes you think you can do what I can do? Get on top of me that moment. This was a healing process. I was no more passive. I wanted to kill him if I had a gun. And I'd shoot him because for his arrogance, I'd come to ask him a sacred question. I'm in trouble and I need an answer. See? And this guy want to know why I didn't go to confession?

sn1-21:50

Well, of course, no matter where it is, it's unnecessary confession. You confess to yourself. But if you face yourself or you'll try to correct it, if you confess it to somebody else, you might say, oh, I want to get rid of that. I'll confess it. Let see. And so consequently, if you got confessions to make them to yourself and change your ways, that's all. So things run correctly and more smoothly. But anyhow, I got out of Seattle and I came back down and that's when I made up my mind that I would get to the bottom of this. I didn't know what happened. I knew that I died. I knew I dead. I I've even conceived of why wasn't God there? Why didn't I meet somebody in the church? You get the story that the angels will visit you or something like that. I didn't see any angels.

sn1-22:57

I did know that there's a creative ability to, a desire at this thing. In other words, what I saw, I saw a lot of people, but I don't know what they were. Phonies just, it appeared because I wanted to appear. None of them talked to me or something. So I got back and I visited a friend of mine up there and him and his wife, I went in and I was telling him about the experience and I said, what do you make of it? And what he said was, rose, I love you. Will you marry me?

sn1-23:43

And he didn't know what to say to show his concern. He knew something what I'd gone through when I got through talking to him. But his wife, of course had another view and she says, Dick, I think you lost your ego. They were both possibly right? But anyhow, from that time on, I decided to get to the bottom of this to get the truth of the matter, find out what there is about the immortality. And I felt that I had died and had some view of it. So consequently, I didn't worry about total destruction. What the average person worries about is that there may not be any consciousness after unconsciousness. You may never wake up. See, and that of course becomes a burden. And I don't think you should just take a burden and sit with it. I think if you want to be spiritual, you fight it out. You fight it out, you spend time meditating or experimenting or whatever's necessary.

sn1-24:56

But anyhow, I start making notes. I start to a contracting business. So I would have some money to eat on. And I bought a farm so I could hide. I got a farm down there, so it was way back in the woods so I could be left alone. And I start writing, I right, come home from work, I'd make notes. And that was the beginning of the first book I wrote. That was the Albigen papers. And people would read it and they'd get interested. And the result is that, that's me being here is one of the things. If I start talking at universities and people came.


File sn2

Time: 31:41

Speaker 1 sn2-00:00

Of course, it was one stage, the one stage where a lot of them, they were just dying to get into a place where they could smoke pot. And so they'd pretend to be interested in spirituality. Well, I left them, pretend I didn't demand they leave, but I didn't pay too much attention to 'em. Now that started in the late sixties and in 72 we officially set up an organization called TAT because you can't have things too loose. Nobody does anything. But what I discovered from it along the road was certain openings, certain little miracles if you want to call 'em that. And I was surprised. I was always been surprised by it. And I wish that in a way that the setting here had time for this.

sn2-01:07

I would show you, for instance, some of the things that can be done, but I don't want to take too much time at it. Maybe half of the evening. Well, people came down and quite a few of 'em wanted to amount to something on the esoteric level, but one by one they drifted away and other people drifted in and there was no great sages or anything like that emanated from it. But the fact was that they did. They read my books and I think that changed possibly a little bit and not a great revolution, but that's what's going on ever since then. And I get an opportunity to talk, I'd always go and it got it become 90% of my time practically, I lectured. I lived just in the panhandle, West Virginia. So I drove up to Pittsburgh and we had groups established. Somebody go off and they'd go to college or something like that and they'd start a group up in their area. So I got nothing done. But run between them, giving talks and encouraging people to look for their own definition. This is what it is. We don't know ourselves. We can't be self-defined. You have to try to be self-defined and eventually why? If you got enough good friends that don't tell you when you're making a mistake, that helps.

sn2-02:55

Well, so I've got some notes I want to talk about. The first question here is, where is the truth to be found? In the words of saints, in the discoveries of searching of the men in diverse stages of life, perhaps we need not die to understand the abilities of the human mind. There's a whole thing that if you can see changes in your own lifetime or in a few, not a lifetime necessarily, but sometime in your life, then there's hope that you can look further. It's like you go out hunting and it surprises you what you find.

sn2-04:02

Do we know the mind? Students of mysticism are often surprised by the discover of magical mental abilities, such as the ability to see x-ray vision. There was an article written up on that in a world magazine, and I got other discovering these instances and I became amazed. The power of the human mind. There was a man by the name of Joe S from Michigan. He wrote a little book of his own and he lived from 1877 to 1944. Joseph Sadonyy could cause it the lightning and not. That means the whole lobby, don't take the lightning home with us. You just see it. But regardless, it's unusual. So what happens? It's worthwhile that you take that. How did he do it? How does he do it? Why is this? It create lightning. He would count 1, 2, 3, and point lightning strike.

sn2-05:19

He decided that he would look into the stock market. So people encouraged him to tell him which stocks they should buy that was going get bigger worth more. And something happened. Something happened that he was trying to force something across. I don't remember exactly what it is, but he got ego. And when he got egos, the power left him for a year to the day just it seemed like there was a consciousness that was watching him and he was in fact, in that year of time, a year's time, he couldn't heal anybody. He'd be healing people. So from these reports, you get an idea of what something is going on that we haven't covered.

sn2-06:33

The mind of man has not reached a true knowledge of the human mind, of the individual's mental capacities. We don't. This is one thing we should realize. I think it's a shortcut. I mean, you can go out and search for the truth and if you continue you're sincere and dynamic, you just push and push. I say something will crack open. I don't believe in believing though what I'm saying now. I don't ask you to believe it. I think sometimes if a person gets, I've seen people thought they could see somebody heal somebody and they make certain motions or something of that sort and they go imitate it. Nothing happened because first of all, they had still had their ego too much, I think is one thing. It slowed it down. And the other thing was that they weren't sincere. They were just trying to attract attention.

sn2-07:40

The psychics seer does not divulge his method, that the healer does not explain his expertise so that the miracles are seldom learned by honest searchers. And I think it is not necessary. I think you can get the idea, get an idea of this, and some way down the road you begin with small things that you can cause to happen. And Sadony as I said, could cause lightning. And he would point his finger and count to three. And at three the lightning would strike. Now this is interesting. He's, his name is Sadony. I don't know his first name. One of the boys in our group went up to his place in Michigan, and of course he was dead. His son was 70 years old and he brought back one of Sadony's books. The son didn't know too much about his ability to create lightning, but he did accurately predict something on the stock market, which he said is what he lost his power because of it. He was greed. He went to help somebody else be greedy or something like that. So he kept away from the stock market after that. But I really do believe the man had a power, for instance, healing. I don't know the mechanics of it. I just know that these things happen. And if we're interested in the human mind, it's easy to say, oh, that's nonsense. He read that in the book someplace.

sn2-09:33

You start looking and you'll find it. You look in the Bible, you'll find instances of it. For instance, Christ was doing some function on what it was and talking to some people and a woman crept up behind him. I don't know if you remember this, if you've read the Bible, she was troubled with an issue of blood is what the Bible said. And she was desperately wanting to be healed. And she thought if she could just touch him, she would be healed. So she touched him and he immediately said to one of his or several of his disciples that were there, he said, someone touched me.

sn2-10:21

I felt my, what was the word he used? Virtue. Virtue. I felt my who said that? Yeah, he's heard it before. But the thing was you take this, you take this and what's it mean? It's simple. When somebody taps you, your virtue leaves your ability, your psychic and mental abilities leave because if you dissipate or lose energy from dissipation, your brain won't act the same the next hour or the next day. Too much dissipation. The man gets foggy. So this is what happened. This is a vital, there's something vital that permeated the body of Christ and also permeates every human being. And the ideas of course, that you don't play with it. You don't go out and do it to show off or you don't do it for money or you don't do it just for the expertise. And so little by little you get an idea that there is a mental, the place we live in as well as the physical place we live in, and the mental still is more powerful than the physical or the healings wouldn't occur. So you take that and you get down the line of realizations. Well, the first realization that you have is that there's possible to survive. And then after that, it's the function of helping someone else. Now there's a kind of a law. This is a law of sorts.

sn2-12:28

I remember a case of a person that was, well, there's accounts in the Bible, but I remember a case of a person that healed somebody and it surprised him. He didn't expect it. And I don't believe that anybody that does this, you don't do it with the conviction that you're going to lay a big egg. You have to see what, just say, wait and see what happens. There's no motion, there's no greed, there's no pitch for benefit of other people's information or anything like that. And what I'm getting at is these little things that you learn and become part of you when you desire to find out if you're immortal or not, your mind is ready to take on the problem, but you have to be been focused on something esoteric or something that magically affected the material body or the material. Was it something like lightning?

sn2-13:50

See, I know a lot of you'll feel like laughing and say that's it's a hot one, but don't happen. But he had witnesses and of course he made the mistake of predicting for one of his friends something on the stock market, and he lost for a solid year to the day he lost his ability. And I can understand because he reneged on his own, he had found a method of holding his head and focusing his head, and he played with it and it just left. Now, how many other forces are beyond that? I don't pretend to know, but I'm trying to get you to look for these incidents and reading when you're reading literature or biographies or something or to watch people, all animals operate intuitionally as well as people.

sn2-14:55

In other words, especially domesticated animals. We prefer to call this faculty instinct. That's a loose word we have for say the dog or the cat has developed instinct. All animals react logically or they couldn't be trained. Of course there's some animals can't be trained. Intuition might be called an instantaneous computerization in that it seems to sort out in a flash and judge and act from all the data of the person's life. History and more intuition may also involve ESP abilities and information from the dimensions, from other dimensions, from DNA and archetypal memory. The young was an exponent of such deep memory tapping, if you want to look into Young's books for book I, how many he wrote, the hearing of warning voices in the head are later corroborated with messages omens and seeing illogical reactions or compulsions as a result of such omens, which are later vindicated and justified.

sn2-16:44

The exclamation of a polonius of Tiana, I dunno if you've ever heard of the fellow or not, it was way back there, but a polonius was standing on a street corner and somebody walked up to him and he shouted, strike hit him again, killing. And this fellow said, Hey, what are you talking about? He says that the emperor's just been murdered. Now he was miles away. There was no transportation, there was no gasoline motors. And so in some following days or weeks, he found out that at that moment the emperor had been stabbed and killed.

sn2-17:24

Now, I'm going through this stuff because I think everybody here is bound to run cases of phenomena that are really striking and true. They come true. Now with this in mind is where we build our own source of miraculous is the pursuit of lifestyle, of rigorous morality in the face of no good reason for such or proof of the benefit it that you get for acting a larger section of the population. Believe that you bring down luck on you. That is the point that we're after. But we examined deja vu experiences to examine the intuition of knowledge of deaths in the family. A lot of this happens. Examine dreams that are precognitive. Why are they precognitive? And the fact that they can be precognitive means that this is something that we can use. We can don't just come back and say, isn't that strange or miraculous or something like that. But you find that you can adapt your own mind to the same situation that that person is that says, strike him again. You'll be able to pick up the fact that the emperor died as well as that man.

sn2-19:06

Now why all this? Why do we want to find talents for this thing? Because of simple fact, we're dealing with an abstraction. And the abstraction are things like the word God, the things death. We don't really define death. Does it mean that we quit breathing, lose consciousness and rot, or does it mean that we lose a body and gain another place to explore floor? The intuition leads us to believe and act before even a minimum of data is in. This happens a lot with people. What I'm saying, don't discourage it. Some people say, Hey, don't say that. Maybe it'll happen. Maybe it'll bring us bad luck or something if you're not evil. But if you're not trying to do something to damage people, it's not going to hurt anybody. Religion leads us to believe before the data is in. And by religion I mean all forms of transcendental belief about man's inner self, his soul or God, all of which remain unidentified. We have never identified a soul. We have never identified a God, but we believe, see, but that which religion impulsively postulates, science laboriously validates. This is something you'll find about esoteric philosophy. Science is validating spiritual beliefs down the road, sometimes decades or centuries after the original postulation is issued.

sn2-21:09

On the other hand, science or psychology are helpless without inspirational conceptions, a psychologist is not much good if he doesn't have any intuition. And I've spent a lot of time in studying psychology. Psychology and material sciences are so restricted and constricted that they dare not explore except in an orderly fashion and orderly manner in such orderliness will only prolong specializations. Now I'm going to mention a case that happened in this respect. I worked years back on the atomic submarine in Akron, Ohio, and we had a fellow there that was, he wasn't a graduate engineer or anything like that, but to move submarine to propel the submarine, they used a thing called k and a and they couldn't run water through the boilers because it was heated by, they got extremely hot. And I don't know what you, oh, I'll tell you what they used. It was a type of, what is it?

sn2-23:03

It was an atomic. It was an atomic heater, but it got the water so hot that there was an inclination to blow the sides out of the submarine or out of the tank. So the heat was terrific. So what they did is they used K and a sodium and potassium combination and pumped it through the tubes and they didn't explode. The water would explode, but the K and A wouldn't. So they could pump that over into the tank of water. In other words, they didn't have anything in the tube, the veins or the tubes to blow up. Well, they put the thing together and they decided that the K and a had to be pumped, circulated. Well, they put it in a pump. And of course pumps, most pumps have packing in them to keep the stuff from running out around the ends of the pump.

sn2-24:15

And that was grease and the K and A exploded to grease. So this ra just figured it out from common sense. They were a dead standstill. They didn't know that it was going to be able to find a way of running the motors on the submarines. And he said, run the k and a through the motor. See what happens. So in other words, they didn't have to have bearings and all that stuff. And the grease in them would catch the K and a would blow up the grease. In other words, the K and A would, you'd put a drop of water and it explodes it and they took the insides out of the pump or they didn't take 'em out, but they just ran the k and a right through it instead of on a leverage basis. In other words, they couldn't run it through a pump and they had to have it pumped.

sn2-25:14

So when they took out the stuff that had to be greased about the pump and just pass it through, they were doing it in business. Now this man, I was surprised about him because he had an unusual mentality. And I used, used to ride home with him a carpool and I'd ride home with him and one of the very patient people, because I was relentless. I wanted to find out this intuition. Where did he get this intuition from? He didn't know. He didn't know. I never forget one time he made him remark. He said, faith will move mountains. I said, I don't believe you. And he said, why not? I said, because the people on the other side of the mountain don't believe they're going to get hit with a mountain of dirt.

sn2-26:07

We torture each other going home from work. But I'm trying to get the thing across you that I don't think if you read in literature sometimes you run across some of these cases of unusual, what they call apprehension. You apprehend it. There's something here. And this now culminates in you finding a path. You find a path of spiritual action and you have a discovery path too. Just discovered something and aided the pumping of k and A. Then of course there's a, if we're going to get hunches or communication, nobody, nobody has ever said, but God tell us, or let's say some prayers and maybe it'll appear on a piece of paper or something of that sort.

sn2-27:13

The human mind is capable of picking things up and changing them. And it starts, the realization of it is very small in the beginning, but as time goes on, larger phenomena can be exercised. You find it happens in larger fields. And so I, I've seen this happen where a person, a man would cup his hand on a person's head when they had a headache and lift it away and the headache would be gone instantaneously. And this was for pains, almost any place in the body. And then I discovered that they could see them. They could see them, and this fellow used to walk up and point to the headache and he'd ask him, you have a headache, don't you see? Yeah. And he'd point to it, then he'd cup his hands over their head and take it away. Now this is not scientific. So this is what I'm trying to get.

sn2-28:27

I'm trying to show that there are a lot of things that aren't scientific. I often think about the fellow that pointed at lightning happened. After a while you get things happen and you can't quite rule things out. Especially when a bunch of people seen it, seen it happen. It'd be impossible for him to fake it because he don't know when. It's going to be nice if he could know just when lightning was going to happen at any points and make him look good. But what I'm getting at is we do not spend the necessary time to study the human mind. But with some people, those things happen automatically. And those are the instances. If it's possible to find the formula, you've got to talk to them. That's all. And I know the man that can see the headaches, but I won't tell you who he is. You might know him

Speaker 2 sn2-29:30

Well, where are we?

Speaker 1

sn2-29:40

I want to get in. This is a little, this sounds like something. Classwork. I've got the list of the, what I call visions, perception visions. Number one is normal sensory perception. We have many ways of perceiving normal sensory perception. We look as I see my glasses. I see that's normal. Number two, add normal sensory perceptions. These are visions apparently seen by the eye or the sensory organ, which will later prove to be invalid or illusory like a nightmare. Three mental visions or projections. That's a classification. And we conjure up an apple with diamonds embedded into it and you can see it. I use that as an example.

sn2-30:42

If I say apple, you've got a picture of me. If it's a green apple, maybe it's a red apple, but that picture's there, you can also conjure up an apple and put diamonds in the side of it. See what I'm saying is this is projecting something with the mind. Fourth visions without projection. This is like intuition. You have visions or intuition, visions or sight. You call it a sight. Visions of mental processes, meaning introspection, it's as simple as that. You watch your own processes and what I'm saying is these things we should do. Everyone should watch their processes and not be fooled or deliberate. Mental projection. Now this is, there's cases available on this. They cause things by projecting them, they cause them to exist.

File sn3

Time: 21:23

Speaker 1

sn3-00:00

Things that they were able to see. They were called topa and they also could do the Indian rope trick and cause a rope to go up in the air like a snake. And healing at a distance is another one. Psychokinesis perception without a body perception, without a body is, in other words, if you're the incident that I saw when my body was laying in bed, that's what made me put that in the catalog. I saw things that I confirmed when I recovered, so I didn't have a body, I wasn't seeing him with my eyes. My eyes was shot. My eyes was over and laying in the bed, what I was looking at was something else and there was some interior characteristic.

sn3-01:15

What is the basis of all human relationship and of all mechanical and spiritual work? Is it not the truth? The truth is what we're after. This is the relationship that we need on all this work, business, family and other contacts involving trust. Even the sexual relationship, will it endure if the partner lies and lies to cover up unfaithfulness? Can we ever trust our spiritual teacher if they lie to us or refrain from truthful? Meaning it's reasoning to me, can a person become the truth? There's a quotation about that. It says I am the way, the light truth and the light or something of that sort. He made a positive statement. He wasn't, didn't have it, but he wasn't. So consequently, I think that the translation of that, if it inferred that his body, his eyes saw even though he didn't know his eyes, could see it, could see something and be spiritual.

sn3-02:26

Can a person become the truth? Now this is the whole thing in a nutshell. You don't learn the truth, you become it, and the result, the way you become it is your lifestyle has to change. So that until it does become that, and of course the whole thing is that I don't say that you got internal revenue, guy comes around and said how much you make? I've lied to him, but I don't consider that lying because he's a racketeer of Cs. He go pick my pockets. But regardless, it's you lie to yourself is what follows you up. For sure. So I've got a list of these. I don't know how many of 'em you'll remember later because the most important thing is that I feel is to get as much before a person is possible. That it shows very clearly that we don't think that everybody thinks that we're capable of mastering a science or something of that sort.

sn3-03:52

And so what we have is reactions and of course what we try to do is get reactions that will be more harmless. I've got a list of questions now. Provokable thinking if possible, what do you know for sure? Does a man own a house or does a house own him? Does a man have power or is he overpowered a predator or a victim or both? Does a man enjoy or is he consumed? Sometimes they think they're enjoying things, but it's really consuming them. Does a man really reason or is he so programmed? Can a man learn that which he really wishes to by himself alone?

sn3-04:43

Can a man become, what do we mean by become? In other words, what do we mean by somebody becoming what? But I think, I mean if you realize a little bit that we change and that's the becoming, can a man become, how shall he know what he should become? Well, you have to dpe that out. What's important in your spiritual life? That's what you become. Why build an hills before knowing what an aunt is? I'm talking about houses. Why do we build conceptual towers of bebo about human thinking before we know that? Which thought is now, where's the domain of thought? It's psychology. They don't know what thought is. I spent a lot of time majoring in psychology. How can we dare to define thought before the knowing the source and cause of all thought? Where does it come from or the essence of thought?

sn3-05:43

You go back in the essence of thought, is this synaptic or is this plasmic? Where does the thought come from? And if it's a synaptic, is it caused by the prostaglandins or some other chemistry? When we describe bouncing, do you describe the striking object or that which is struck is thought. The process of bouncing or the object struck everything struck reacts with an opposite equal force. Can you start thinking this is something you can't start thinking and you can't stop thinking. You can wish that you had started thinking, but you're already that wish is thinking. See, in other words, I believe that the whole field of psychology is one big scam.

sn3-06:51

They just name words for certain mental faculties and it takes us nowhere is thought, something received or something projected. Some people project their thoughts, which people say that at least meaning all thoughts is thought a sort of somatic emanation coming from the body. Do we think or are we forced to think? Can we escape thinking? Try it. Sometime you are thinking about something you want to quit is negative thinking as commonly discussed, negative to man or negative to nature. We always talk about negative, don't think negatively, and of course then we should think why not See, why should we be positive all the time?

sn3-07:47

Does the brain generate thought like a radio generates a message? Comments from its speaker is thought limited to the brain? We never stop to think of this thinking process might be outside the head or the resolution of a thinking process. It might be outside the head and even to the point where somebody else picks it up. I've had people say, I know what you're thinking and they tell you what you're thinking. It's unusual, but I know people do that. There's people to do it. When a tree bends over and does it create wind by waving its branches, what are you doing for certain and what is done to you is what? The point is we cannot see the wind. What is telepathy? Does thought travel beyond the head? Does only the head think what does the vehicle for thought travel? We have no reassurance that all this thinking goes on in our head. It could be six inches behind our head perhaps.

sn3-08:56

Does the body manufacture thoughts or does the body only serve as a conduit? Where in the body are thoughts received during telepathy? When you're picking somebody up on telepathy, what kind of a thought is that that seep out of his head and seep into your head? See, we never think to question these things. What's going on in certain mental situations and where are they sent? Where are the thoughts sent? Do chemicals such as serotonin and other new road transmitters create thought or do they merely facilitate the penetration into our consciousness of strictly sensory data? Let me have to think on that a minute. See, where will the answer to this question? Lead us Multidimensional contacts, telepathy lead us to telepathy or communication with the dead because the thought is not limited the head, so therefore it can travel most any place. And of course you get these cases where a person has a vision of a friend of his a thousand miles away sitting in front of his fireplace and he calls him up and he says, were you sitting in front of your fireplace? And the guy said, yeah, you know that he saw he has the image. You'll read of this stuff at some time or other people have even tested it at a distance. Tested tele telepathy at a distance.

sn3-10:41

How many four hours did we spend analyzing our thought presses processes? Now this is of course as a point which is we were talking about mental discovery and spiritual discovery. This is important. We should think about it. You can't just read about it and then take the page and say, well, here's how we'll create thought or explain thought. Is it important to observe our reactions, thought reactions? Are we only a body or some of the people think that we're there's no spirit, no soul, just a body. Okay, so the questions there. In other words, what we should do if we're good scientists, find out if we're only a body and what part of that body is the seed of life? We can cut off an arm or leg or cut out and replace lungs, heart, kidneys, and still live, but life was in those pieces.

sn3-11:47

We can have our nervous system severed at the neck with paralysis except in the head and still live and think we can remain unconscious for years while the body continues to live. Noting that a person who is brain dead according to medical instruments can continue to live, breathe at times, recover and function consciously. These things infer that there's some complexity that we never give a thought to. We hear the cases, but we never give a thought and never say, how did it happen? Why did he wake up 10 years later and say, Hey, give me a beer or something. Do we think or imagine we think is our thinking automatic? We can't help it. We have to think that may be the case in some instances. I don't know. Do not. Our thoughts come before we have time to replace them. When we decide to search for the source of thought, why do we be become mentally wary or find our thoughts, becoming able to find objective or describable distractions but unable to describe name or systematize, the progression, origins or duration of a thought process. We just have never got down to measuring the thought process.

sn3-13:07

Is man only a blob of protoplasm which is programmed to react according to a schedule or is he a free agent? Ines, I get there. I'm talking about conditioned reflexes. I hear a lot about say, I don't know how accurate that is. Is he a blob of protoplasm or is he free? Our thoughts? Likewise, only reflexes from programmed or calculated stimuli. Who programmed? Who stimulated? In other words, we got this little thing called temptation, and these are, you might say for some people they're calculated stimuli and other people they're not. They just overwhelm them. What is thought? Can we observe our thoughts? If we observe our thoughts? Who is looking? What kind of a creature can see thoughts when we observe our thoughts? Are we not thinking about thinking? Is such a thinker? Someone who dreams of yesterday thinking he watches a dreamer or is he a detached watcher of past and present thoughts? Who is awake and aware of the mechanical man or basically mechanical men? And this is one of the things we have to do, be less mechanical.

sn3-14:31

What are we an animated body and a suppressed, stagnated soul? Do we have a mind or are we mind stuck? Or are we a programmed body in mind? Do we actually know that which we are doing? If so, why do we regret things we do? Does the meone insect animal or man know why it reproduces? And anybody here, you can ask that question to yourself. Why do you reproduce? There's no good reason for it. You bring children into the world to die and if you don't bring 'em in, there'll be less deaths. Does the meta zone insect, animal or man know why it reproduces?

sn3-15:27

I think this is really something everyone should try to discover. Find out why do we reproduce? Why are we obsessed for? Is that what all we're here for? Is this to produce another creature? Does the tree create wind by waving its branches or is it always moved by external forces? That's a weird way of pointing it out, but the reason I ask that is because we don't know. We can't prove why a branches move on a tree and it could be that the tree's waving and causing the wind. We never stopped to think of the possibilities, but in other words, there's a lot of things in life that we have explanations for, but we don't bother to stick with it long enough to get a good definition. Does the person seduce another or both seduced? I dunno if you know what I mean there. They're not responsible. People are not responsible because no one asks for glands. See, but if you don't watch what your glands do, they might hang you. What does the man do besides fertilizer or is that our function on earth? That men are fertilizers of women? So we got to be candid about it. Are you a hero or a victim?

sn3-17:14

Are you loved or are you consumed? Did you ever have it happen to you? You thought you were loved and you were consumed? Do you have possessions or are you possessed by them? Which is the more evidential and apparent to you, your divinity or your animal appearance? The lover might like you but you won't necessarily. You might have an animal appearance. That's what they're attracted by. If we wish to plan our lives, do we not need to consider while planning that it may all be planned and that we have no choice? How do we plan around that possibility?

sn3-17:57

We're convinced we're doing things and it's possible that everything that we did was seen ahead of time cause and when we define our limitations, do we automatically need to define ourself is another thing. Very few people bother to look for their self. What the self is? Do we discover more accurately the nature of ourself? How much of a human action is faded or predestined? Is the knowledge of factors of any value in the face of possible predestination? If predestination exists as no sense of blaming anybody for conduct, if we're predestined to do it, that's the way we're predestined to get killed, we'll get killed for following our instinct or desires.

sn3-18:50

Is all of our reality merely a collected belief, a paradigm? Now, Chilton Pierce brought this up. Chilton Pierce was a bit of a psychologist, but the whole reality is maybe it's a collective belief or paradigm. In other words, what happened? His wife had cancer. I dunno if you know the story. It is wife had cancer and he believed that she could be relieved of the cancer if they refused to believe in answer. I don't know. The result, I guess somebody may have followed through on Chilton Pierce, I don't know if his wife died from it or not, is scientific reality. Only a progression of events planned and expedited by a mentality of cosmic or spiritual proportions which utilize the mentality, egos and energy of humans.

sn3-19:52

In other words, we don't know who's winding our clock. We don't know who's putting us on the street to walk down the street even. What is life and what is death? Are these items ever properly defined except in terms of each other? Life is not death. Death is not life. See, hooray. We never find out for sure what they are. Individually we've never defined death or have we defined life and are these items ever properly defined except in terms of each other? Can theological facts be established by voting and others? This is what they do. They get together and they decide whether one of the saints had a cousin or nap. Pope went to heaven. God, what is life? What is death? Can theological facts be established by Bodhi? Is Mary the mother of God or is humanity the mother of God?

sn3-20:55

This is one of the sayings I'm picking up stuff that people like to repeat. Is God determined by victorious armies if his army wins and he's on God's side, but getting back about this business, this is a thing in the Catholic religion is that the busted version was taken to heaven physically. She didn't leave anything behind, and so consequently she had her body and outer space. Where are the commodes? She'd have to have one. She'd have to have a place to eat or she'd starve to death, but yet they consistently imposed that thing on people's minds that she went to heaven with her body. That would be a tremendous thing to follow and find out. What happens is God determined by victorious armies is virtuous, established by psychological edict. I mean we've got a science that's running wild running amuck called psychology is virtue established by ecclesiastical vote. If enough priests or preachers get together and decides somebody's pure or holy, and that becomes a fact or by the requisites of our S essence, is it established by sce essence? What is sin?

sn3-22:38

This is something that be, a lot of people are tortured by the idea of sin, an offense against yourself, an offense against your fellow man or an offense against God. I'm doing these things just to try to straighten out thinking processes and the outcome is an offense against God recognized by divine outcry, earthquake or cosmic catastrophe. Is it a sin meat? Are the animals our brothers, are they possessive intelligence and soul? Do animals sin when they eat other animals or are such planting animals? Pardon? For keeping ecology in balance. So we got find a little virtue in them. Now, is it wrong to kill except for food? If so, do we do wrong but not eating the people we kill?

sn3-23:36

Got to get those people in the battlefield. Do something with them. See who is knowledgeable about good and the item goodness is good that which we desire or that which is in itself good. What is the condition of being in itself good? Is evil the child of good or is it a twin? We got goodness. Then we have to have an opposite. If a man drives a horse through a plate glass window, it should the man be prosecuted of the horse. If a man steals to feed his children, should we prosecute the man or that which drove him? The children. If a man rapes a girl, should we prosecute a the man, the girl who tempted him or drove him, his ancestors for his genetic appearance or glandular inclination or the force that design manca, take it back to God.

sn3-24:37

God did all the dirty work. See, we didn't have anything to do with it. Perhaps I'm not saying anything positive. What is equality? Was Samson equal to? Delilah is a baby equal to a dying man? I remember one time I was given a talk up in, I think it was Kent, Kent, Ohio, and I said, I didn't believe in abortions and killing babies. And I said, it's better to, if somebody has to die, let it be the old guy that's lived his life out. Let's not kill babies. They ain't had a chance and I can't help but think it. People are embodied with a certain love for babies, a certain attraction for them. They're very precious. An old man with cancer is not precious.

sn3-25:40

Well, I had one of the fathers and one of the people, students up there coming to our meetings, he stormed out. He was an attorney. He stormed out. He says, I can't stand anymore of this out the door. He went. He didn't like the idea of letting the old man die instead of the baby or you only half of a plan by virtue of not possessing both sexes. I think sometimes a lot of the stuff that we do is the result of two different beings coming together and they got the advantage of two different thoughts, plans, ways of thinking, and is peace of mind more important than global peace or herd piece? Are you only a body? Are you rather a complex organism, a cell colony, a nature oriented bundle of conditioned reflexes? We've been hearing that stuff a psychologist for a long time. Were just a bunch of conditioned reflexes. Is the brain a monitoring station designed for that organism's indefinite survival? Or is our body programmed for death? Death gene by death. Genes or something like that following procreation like the corner and the wheat. In other words, when you start breeding the wheat gets corn dries up, falls off of the stalk. Is all religion and philosophy merely rationalization, rationalization, emanating from that computer to answer constant cellular awareness of death.

sn3-27:26

In other words, we write books and everything else to try to tone down the shock of death. The germ falls from a dying tassel in corn to or is the eternal belief in life after death and intuitive reading from that computer, a reading not completely translatable into computer symbols which are limited. Is there a soul? Did it exist before the body or must it be developed, grown, or evolved? The baby who cries at both of them. In other words, I so think that the babies cry because they're sorry, they got here. Prove the following mind as other than somatic awareness, we are using these terms. We never prove them. Subconscious mind, ego hid super, ego chakra, kundalini, titel, astro, etheric, casual body, aro, halo, ectoplasm, spiritual ear conscience, spiritual nectar. We waiting to these, digging for phenomena and that sort of thing. We run into a tremendous lot of capacity on the part of the mind.

sn3-29:02

What is time? Does time pass or does it passes space? Time is stable. Metrics, which we are only in which we are only transient visitors. How much of life is a mirage? Do we see this world infallibly or obliquely? Just because we see the world as say we're infallible in what we say. Are the senses infallible? Can you see or hear or feel or smell or taste? Time is time only a relative conceptualization. What is the reality of time? Does the ant or amoeba, I mean this is where when you get to thinking about the time for different types of creatures, we don't know, but it's possible that their length of time is much different than ours. For instance.

sn3-29:59

In other words, an walking across a board or a plath that takes him a certain amount of time, which may be we call duration. When a human being going across that same period would have a much shorter time and so a shorter duration. What does a lifetime feel like? Does it feel differently to a child and to an old person? And I think it does. I think it does. I think a child has a feeling it's going on forever. I'll always be thinking there. What is the relation to memory at the time? Do we remember a duration or measure? If we have no clock at hand, do we remember how long a pain lasted? When the pain occurred years ago? We don't remember much about pains. Why is that phenomenal? Would women become pregnant as often if they remembered the duration intensity of the pain of childbirth? This is where this thing shows up that it is basically part of the deal. Do we have a real sense of time when we hear a clock ticking? Do we then know what a second is or what stretch of consciousness exists for others? In a second? I.


File sn4

Time: 30:29

Speaker 1

sn4-00:01

A long period of time for an ant is what I'm getting at. And another something entirely different for a human being. Do the wings of the hummingbird move rapidly or slow to the gauging of the hummingbird? We think they're very fast. They may think they're slow to the time. Sense of a fruit flies is life. Long or short is a sense of duration or passing time proportional to the mass of the entity of that experience. Does time exist other than a fascination, which seems to be a brief or longer duration? In other words, you hear people say, time passed swiftly rushed by.

sn5-00:42

This is a understanding of that duration, and two people would have a different duration and then would get to wonder what's the long range duration of a lifetime? If the sun is our ultimate clock of earth rotation as a measurement, what is our measurement of time after the death of our senses? Do we change our measurement when we go blind or ears fail is time and illusion that prevents us from experiences self that has no motion. This is a thing that you sense a bit in the later years of life that ourself now is not ambitious and basically it has no motion itself, but it may cause it. Have you ever heard a cloth ticking in a delirium?

sn4-01:45

If the mind can be distorted in a delirium or in an LSD trip, does the mind ever understand the true feeling of a second? What is nostalgia? Is it the soul's view of a previous feeling? What is space? Is space interdependent with time? Are they not measured by each other? For instance, they call a light year. See, that's that's the duration of a point of light. Time is determined by spatial phenomena, rotation, duration. In other words, we count things by the surface of the earth, rotates. We call a day. And do space and time exist at all time except in reference to us? What is the understanding by insects of the distance to the sun of the moon? Can they look up there and see what's happening?

sn4-02:45

Do we have a true picture of nature? When we appreciate nature as being beautiful is such an appreciation of life or of death. It's like you go out and you look at the beautiful leaves. Autumn, that's death. See, have you ever watched the war that goes on in a drop of water in a cancerous tissue or in a cancerous tissue? You got some germs in there that's floating around. There's a lot of activity there and consciousness too. Evidently they know how to swim. How many pro zones are required to sustain the world's meta zones? Can they be counted? How many proteasomes are eaten alive every second by their animals or zones or whatever? How many microscopic meta zones are eaten each second by large events? Is death painless for these beings? Do they scream? How many small metz zones are needed to feed one worm for a day or one insect? How many worms or insects die every minute to feed the birds? How many worms are insects are needed to feed a pair of birds in their fledglings each day? How many worms or insects are in need for one hen's egg? How many that hen have to eat in order to produce an egg? In the summer? We hear the hum of many insects. Is this hum beautiful orchestral or a bedlam of screaming? We never really know.

sn4-04:13

Are the songs of birds more than just mating noises? Are not trees more attractive and autumn than when dying? What is the true destiny of all beings? A growth into individuality or a means of energy, food for higher beings? Predators? Well, I just use these to, if you want something to stimulate your thought, but we don't know what to think, we dwell on some of those things. We let's loosen up and answer questions or make comments long as they aren't too rough.

Speaker 2

sn4-05:17

What would you give as a definition of meditation?

Speaker 1

sn4-05:25

Well, I would probably say that meditation is personal thought, personalized type of thought. That's all we're thinking. You can't stop thinking no matter what you're doing, but that's meditation. We're thinking about it, but it's more personalized and wanting to know whether you're going to get across the street safely or something. Meditation is not strange to the thinking process. It is a thinking process

Speaker 3

sn4-06:09

Objectively. Thank you for coming. And objectively

Speaker 1

sn4-06:14

Say that again.

Speaker 3

sn4-06:15

It says objectively, thank you for coming objectively. I'm sure there'll be some that will come.

Speaker 1

sn4-06:23

Some will come. Are you still teaching in West Virginia? Huh?


Speaker 4

sn4-06:29

Are you still teaching in West Virginia?

Speaker 1

sn4-06:31

Well, I have a farm that we meet at and people come there if they want to go into a trance or sleep or chop wood or meditate or ask questions. So it's been valuable. Valuable? Yeah.


Speaker 5

sn4-06:59

For those quos you just said before, do you also think about them if you do have arrived to any kind of food you have? So if I think about them and arrive to the same, would I arrive to the same thing to Judy or not necessary?

Speaker 1

sn4-07:14

I really can't follow you. I mean, you're talking kind of low

Speaker 3

sn4-07:21

On the sentences you just gave us like you were reading.

Speaker 1

sn4-07:24

Yeah.

Speaker 3

sn4-07:24

Do you think about them regularly or do you already

Speaker 1

sn4-07:28

What? Know

Speaker 3

sn4-07:28

What's going on?

Speaker 1

sn4-07:29

No, no. I mean this stuff I read. Maybe you notice that sometimes I stop. I haven't read them for the last talk.

Speaker 3

sn4-07:41

Probably. You have thought about them,

Speaker 1

sn4-07:42

Huh?

Speaker 3

sn4-07:43

You have thought about them?

Speaker 1

sn4-07:44

Thought about 'em? Sure. Oh, there's a lot of things that I focus on more than others. I focus on phony religions. I think we've got phony psychology systems.

Speaker 3

sn4-07:58

No, I was just concerned if the answers, there are answers for those things, aren't they? Oh, yes.

Speaker 1

sn4-08:04

Yeah. And

Speaker 3

sn4-08:05

Will it be the same for me for you?

Speaker 1

sn4-08:08

I don't know. I don't know. Have you pursued most of them all the through? Have you pursued most of those questions you read to your satisfaction within yourself?

sn4-08:26

I don't think I've paid that much attention to them except to note. Except to note that they show the discrepancies in our thinking system. We get into things and do them before we analyze what we're doing. That's the whole thing. And they're read, of course I read them. I try to read them slow, but it's better if a person could read them off the paper themselves. They get what we do is we stumble around trying to find some way to talk to God and we never find it. We will swear on it that we've talked to him, but nobody even Sure. So there's certain things that you can't just because you think about 'em, you can't push 'em.

sn4-09:18

And in other words, one of the whole secret of miracles is allowing it to happen, not showing off and saying, look what I can do. And I called miracles. There's minor things that happened in their psychic life, and the thing is to be happy if it's good and if it's bad, look a little deeper and see why the thing has to happen that way. All while I'm talking, I'm trying to get it across to you that we have capacity. I ask those questions, but we have the individual has a capacity to do things that we read about, but we don't ever stop and try it. For instance, there's a case of we got his book down there. What was his name? Spiritualist in England, the name I don't know. He would go into a trance and float out the window. Two stories above the street. Who am I talking about? Anybody remember him? It was a medium of some sort. It wasn't nonsense. It happened. Well, what kept him up? What kept him from falling? I mean, there were actually witnesses that saw it and they go around. The people talk to him. Yeah, he could do it at Will, but I've got the book. He wrote a book about it in fact, and I can't remember his name.

Speaker 2

sn4-11:13

David.

Speaker 1

sn4-11:14

David Young. Right. Okay. So this shows capacity people. We have the capacity to do things and in a lifetime we never know how it's done. So no need to be surprised if somebody gets healed, don't be surprised if it fails. See, the idea is you can't force anything. We can't force any. We just robotic. So we got to have to try to get robotic measures of a little more developed expert robotic impulses or receptions. Yeah.

Speaker 4

sn4-11:58

How do you feel about astrology?

Speaker 1

sn4-12:00

Astrology? I've never got into it, to be honest with you. Yeah.

Speaker 2

sn4-12:11

What gives you the most satisfaction or I would say gratification in this point of your career or this point of your examination of life?

Speaker 1

sn4-12:25

Well, I don't have many thrilling adventures with the people that I work with, but I'm always feel better if a person reaches another step that is, in other words, I can't say why. Maybe I shouldn't like it or become happy, but it happens that I get very happy. I also get very happy when I see a baby. I love babies. I don't know why. So you can detect that by, huh?

Speaker 2

sn4-13:13

You can detect them getting up on that other one step higher just by sometimes without even maybe talking to them. Or

Speaker 1

sn4-13:22

Can you say that, oh, hey, the thing for them to do is not worry about me. Learn to push, learn to keep hammering away at it. Focus your thinking on it. And that's the reason I read some of these things out. There are ways of a person putting in an hour a day or so in some kind of spiritual work. One of 'em is examining what he's done wrong during the day, and the other one is making up his mind that he's going to follow a certain routine that enables him to think better or to perceive or to cause we could cause things. As I said in the beginning, we can heal people and you talk sometimes to people that heal and you'll find out that there's no formula. There's no formula. It is just magic, and it's something that you think about and if it happens, you rejoice if nothing happens back to the drawing board. But you don't try to make a business out of it. In other words, the only thing I can say, I can't say while we're trying to please God and God don't want us to do this. No, I don't say that. I just say that there's a time sometimes, but things happen better than other times. I don't know what causes it. I don't know what the time is, the difference of the time, but I mean, sometimes a person won't pick up things. There are a lot of people that are psychic.

sn4-15:10

But what I'm saying is we are talking about Zen, and I want to say this much about it. I've never been out of the United States. Oh, let me, I shouldn't say that because I've been, well, maybe not, maybe I've never been on the United States.

Speaker 4

sn4-15:42

The experience that you had when you were 30 years older, relying on the couch, couch, can you identify anything specific that triggered that IE What caused that to come about?

Speaker 1

sn4-15:55

You mean when my head had the pain?

Speaker 4

sn4-15:57

Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1

sn4-16:00

I thought I was dying. That's all I thought. So you

Speaker 4

sn4-16:03

Don't really know why it

Speaker 1

sn4-16:05

Happened or don't know? I don't know. I think one thing in all my life, I've been hoping that I'd find a formula. I'd find something way of looking at death. I took one time, I was around 17 years old, I decided to kill myself, and I took strip nine and I wound up in the hospital and doctor, I don't know if you've ever heard of strip nine and know what it does to you. My mouth was pulled back in my ears and my head was trying to touch my heels, and I thought it would be a very simple thing. I would wait. I'd just take a strict night. I'd be unconscious. The next thing I'd do, I'd be in heaven flying around with the angels. But what I had a vision of, I went blind. I went blind with it. The doctor came up, I remember he came up and he was, my mother was there. She showed up. I did it on the street. I washed the street line down with some stuff out of a pump water, and I wanted out. I wasn't doubt, I just fed up with the games of life. That's all. So he said to me, how many, he had a medical measurement of it. How many?

sn4-17:35

So much of these five grams I think he was talking about. I shook my head. No, I couldn't speak. I shook my head. No, that wasn't the amount. He said, was it a teaspoonful? And I said, yeah, it was really a table spoonful. And so he said, well, son, you've done a good job. It's a very helpful, you've done a very good job. He was in the doctor's office. They got an ambulance and rushed me to High Valley Hospital, and I passed out on the ambulance and I figured that was it. The thing was, of course, see, this is the thing of training children to think that the angels are going to come and get him. Then no angels showed up. Their name must been out playing poker someplace. But I got up there and woke up the next morning, I got these guys, three or four doctors standing around me and wondering why I recovered. They couldn't understand why I recovered from it. But the thing is, I don't believe it's time to go. That's all. I jumped the gun. They weren't through tortured me.

Speaker 4

sn4-18:58

I mean, not to say that I would just want to go out and try something to see what it's like. I'm just curious as to what you thought just initiated that

Speaker 1

sn4-19:11

What I thought about what?

Speaker 4

sn4-19:13

Yeah. I mean, I'm not like, how do you do it? I want to try it.

Speaker 1

sn4-19:16

Oh, no, no. I know that. I was just curious to what you thought made the strictly your wife will sue me. You mean what kind of thinking I had?

Speaker 4

sn4-19:31

Just sort of, is there any, I mean, it just seems kind of like, wow, you're just lying on the couch and poop. This magical thing.

Speaker 1

sn4-19:46

It wasn't a surprise to me because I expected, but I had a vision. A vision before I got in the ambulance of, I watched myself and I was lying in a casket and my hand was up on my chest or something, and I looked down and it started to rot. I mean, the process of rotting was part of the vision. And I knew then that I was not going to die possibly, but if I did, I was no way to stop it. But I never knew why, except that possible some entity or some organism. It prompted me to fight back. And when I saw that there was no hope of fighting back then, I just went unconscious. Yeah,

Speaker 2

sn4-20:47

I think he's trying to ask you, when you were 30 and had your experience, what caused it? Why did you have an experience? What factors caused that? What led up to that?

Speaker 1

sn4-21:02

I don't really know why. I don't think anybody ever a fly. Just the mechanics of it, huh?

Speaker 4

sn4-21:07

Yeah. I was just sort of asking as to if you have any clue as to what sparked it. Just the mechanics of what? Just touched that off.

Speaker 1

sn4-21:16

Is it taking the poison?

Speaker 4

sn4-21:18

No, I'm talking about when you were 30.

Speaker 1

sn4-21:19

Oh, yeah. Well, I don't TI don't know what really cost. The thing was that I had gone out to Seattle to get married, right? And it all through, it was ignorance on my part. I thought all women were saints and this was a lesbian, and that was the end of that trip. See, I caught her with another woman and I went down there for very long. So I turned around. I thought, well, I went and got a room in a hotel, was a Chinese, a hotel, was just a cheap place to, and had too much money. And I thought, I get down to the library and see 'em daddy esoteric books, and so I'd do some reading and I didn't expect anything to happen. I didn't expect anything at all that happen. I wondered why it had the pain in my head, that unbearable pain in my head. I thought, oh, this was kill me. Of course, the person said Not too long after that, I was standing and I went out the window, went right through the glass, headed up for the range of mountains up there. Yeah.

Speaker 5

sn4-22:59

So how could you be Sure then it was not just a mental thing going on.

Speaker 1

sn4-23:04

Oh, you can never be sure.


sn4-23:08

There's no way that when I talk about these things, I try to be as candid and just say what happened, because I don't tend to embellish it. There's embarrassment and stuff, but I feel that if you tell the truth and describe how you feel, and I don't know why I came back. I don't know why I regain consciousness even see, it was just a tremendous pain in my head. But you never know what causes it. I sometimes think that that was my time. That's all. It's my time to break through some information and that it was life after death because I realized that I was dead. I realized that, but I was overwhelmed by the beauty of that place and the potential, but I could see anything I wanted to see. All I had to do was ward. I found out later on reading some of the books by Spiritualists was that they had an explanation for that type of phenomenon. And it was causal realm. The causal realm. There's an astro body and then there's a causal realm. Of course, I took it with a grain of salt. I thought, how do they know? But regardless, when I come out of that, I realized that something caused this to show on the screen of my mind.

sn4-24:53

And of course I fell off of the high place, fell through black just like a jet. Black couldn't see out. And I thought when I hit the bottom, it won't be dead. When I hit the bottom, I was back in, dead back. I was cautious of being in bed, but, but I think that it was sort of a blessing in a way because I've always wanted some reassurance that there was life after death. Because you don't get much proof on this. It's very hard to get any proof that you survive death.

Speaker 3

sn4-25:38

Maybe that was it. You just wanted to see what you wanted to see. You saw it.

Speaker 1

sn4-25:43

You mean that I created it because I was hungry for it, huh? Yeah. Maybe you were just upset. Go ahead. Could be. It could be. Might've been part of it, but I don't know. The thing before it though, I was in so much pain that I thought the pain had killed me. I didn't conceive it. I was going to try. Pain in your heart, in your head. I had in the head. Oh, I knew that. Yeah. In your heart as well. Did that have, I don't know. I don't remember anything bothering me there. Except the discovery of, huh? Except the discovery of your beloved some time before. Could have been. Could have been. Yeah. Well, yes. That was the theme of my life. I wanted to know. I wanted to know if there was any hope after death. And it's difficult to cause it. You go talk to somebody else. There are people, there's a lot of times where people are, they're dead, pronounced dead, and they think they're dead. And you talk to people, work in hospitals, you'll find us. There's cases of where they bring 'em in and think they're dead.

sn4-27:08

I remember years ago when I was just a kid, they didn't take a body to the mortuary, to undertaker. They buried 'em from the front room. And undertaker would come down and take a hose and get all the blood out of your system and pump it out and make damn sure you're dead. Before they al me. So I just figured that some people do. They can. One time, this was a small village I lived in, and a fellow had some kind of a spell that he came over and he fell, not only fell, but he fell in a bucket and put the widget on his head. He couldn't get the bucket off and he stopped breathing something of that sort. But he surprised him all by now. They actually had him in a casket. They got the bucket off, put him in a casket, and he had raised up and asked for a drink of water. But see now they make sure you're dead to make sure you're dead. They take that blood out, they pump the blood out. So I think, I don't know the reason for all this, but I think there's an education and those things happen to you. You get a clear cut definition between consciousness and death of just unconscious death.

Speaker 5

sn4-29:06

In a previous lecture, you said that after you got that experience, you were changed through that. Faculty was really different. So that might prove that that might be approved. That it was not only a mental thing or

Speaker 1

sn4-29:20

Not necessarily. Yeah. You can change physical things. You can change, you can heal a person.

Speaker 3

sn4-29:29

So you just got that after that. How did you, after your experience, how did you figure out that you had kind of

Speaker 1

sn4-29:39

Help? I didn't. I didn't. It was quite a while after I had my experience. I was, for a week or so after I was coming through it, I couldn't stop weeping. And I got on the bus. I got on the bus. When I got further, got away from Seattle, unless I was tore up, I found the, A tension left me. But the thing is that I had a little conversation with you over there, and what I try to get across is that there is information available. This true spiritual life is finding, some people say finding God. Well, I never found God. See what I mean? But I knew that there was some power strongly than mine. We.


File sn5

Time: 30:04

Check this note: Side 5 was 32 minutes total. First 7 minutes is repeat of last 7 minutes of side 4. Deleted from mp3 file #5. File 5 – 25 minutes** see below.

Speaker 1

sn5-00:00

There is information available. This true spiritual life is finding, some people say finding God. Well, I never found God. See what I mean? But I know that there were some power strongly than mine that could be tapped or maybe we could blame it on God. I've noticed this. For instance, I saw a girl, I don't know anybody in back there, know that there was a girl between you and that lady. Her head was hurting her. And I was going to mention it to her, but I thought, well, not now. She left, but I could see her pain from here. And this is when it is unfortunate the person has to have a headache. But there is a possible way to see that and remove it. And we don't know the mechanics. I don't know the mechanics of it. Just know that it happens and I'm happy it happens. So yeah. Could you have

Speaker 2

sn5-01:16

Seen that headache keep your eyes closed? Have you actually crossed?

Speaker 1

sn5-01:19

So I never closed them. I never closed my eyes.

Speaker 2

sn5-01:23

So you did see something? You close something.

Speaker 1

sn5-01:27

No, I see it. We have a place down. Every we should talk was like when people would come in and I could go through and put my finger on their headache right on the spot. And I don't like to talk about this. It sounds like I'm popping off or lying or bragging, but regardless, in other words, if anybody's got a headache here tonight, it's possible I can take it away for you. That's the thing as to show. But the only one I saw in the room is that girl there. I knew she was in some sort of pain.

Speaker 3

sn5-02:11

Mr. Rose, can you heal people from a distance or do you have to have physical contact with them as well?

Speaker 1

sn5-02:19

I've never tried to heal 'em at a distance. Never have. And of course, I don't know why it would have to be to close up because what's my finger? There ain't no magic here. That's been

Speaker 2

sn5-02:35

Able to pick up people from a distance. Huh? You've been able to pick up other people from a distance. In other words, even though you haven't healed them, you've sense, you could tell people have been at a distance if you sense they've been in trouble to be some long term.

Speaker 1

sn5-02:53

Oh yeah. I've been able to tell sometimes when a person to give you old say, I got to go soandso in trouble. Sure enough. But see, what I'm trying to get across is I led a relentless life against ignorance so that I could have better sight into spiritual things like a soul, know what the soul was doing, what was capable of having in it. And so consequently, when your whole being is reaching for something to define yourself by or to indicate that you're not spoofing yourself, that you've actually got a hold of a system or method, which is foolproof.

sn5-03:53

I very seldom ever had a person that I'd point to 'em and see, I see. I'd see the headache and I'd put my finger on it and I just like this girl back here, I could see her pain and I was busy talking, so I didn't say anything to her. What I'm saying is we are in too shallow water. Things are deeper than that. If you look, you've got to look deeper. And the main thing is you got to be candid. Don't make any great exploits out of it. You're just happy because it worked. That's the attitude to have. If it don't work, you back up and say what went wrong? Maybe it's not supposed to happen.

sn5-04:50

Yeah. What do you think about Phil, that the in connection with spiritual or mental, I'm glad you mentioned that. I should have mentioned it sometime during the talk. I believe in total celibacy except for the purpose having children and because sex detracts from the production of energy, real energy. And of course I find it, your mind's clear your mind's that way. It seems that fixation for the opposite sex gives you a lot of trouble. So it's a simple way to get around. It is. You quit. That's all. But it helps to be, ation can be a healthy relationship, healthy relationship. People with healthy relationships can get gonorrhea. Don't kid yourself. Yeah.

Speaker 2

sn5-05:59

You said earlier that it's almost a law, but because of your experience, you gained this knowledge or this vision and you expressed it as almost a law that you pass on this knowledge to other people. My question is how do you know it's a law? Why do you think it's a law? Who made the law? And can you break it? Or what happens if you break it?

Speaker 1

sn5-06:26

You forgot one thing. I'm supposed to pass it along good or bad. Right? But I wouldn't pass any on. It was negative. No.

Speaker 2

sn5-06:38

How do you know it's a law? I mean, it's not the only place I've heard it.

Speaker 1

sn5-06:41

Well, it's a law because it's predictable when something's predictable. In other words, if every time that you think of dollar bills, that becomes a fixation. And after a while you'll either quit thinking of dollar bills to see how many of you make. And the same way with spiritual matters, you see, you get the edge of it, you get something. It's like a hunch and you try it. And of course I'm saying, I do believe this man asked a question. It was very valuable. I didn't say it because I don't like to tell people to be Sullivan. But this is the miracle. The miracle is a result of celibacy, of my estimation. I don't believe you can live and have sex and drink and get drunk and that kind of stuff. And you owe anybody. And I can't tell you why. I just say, I just don't believe you'll happen. Somebody that's tormented, allowing the son be tormented, need another drink or need another sexual act or something like this. Your head's focused on the mundane. It's not focused on another field of action, another field of possibility. You said you went into,

Speaker 2

sn5-08:10

You said you at one point you went into the contracting business, but you don't talk about it as anything more than

Speaker 1

sn5-08:19

A means to end, right? Was that your approach to it? Going into it? Oh sure. I had eat. Yeah, I eat. So you weren't interested in making a profit? Oh, you about to make a profit. Why? Huh? Why? Well, because you charge them for your labor. That's the profit. Yeah. You start so much for, you make a bid, you bid on 'em, and you bid enough to pay for the material and you're so much an hour for labor. How long were you in the business? Huh? How long were you in the contract? Oh, a couple of years. A couple of years. I can't remember exactly.

Speaker 3

sn5-09:05

In your pursuit's, pursuit for knowledge, is there a discipline that is studied or used by individuals which gives them a universal understanding that when they reached a point of enlightenment?

Speaker 1

sn5-09:20

No, I think there's a discipline. And of course the discipline, one of the disciplines is the celibacy. That's to get your total focus on it. Because if you're thinking about making money or if you're thinking about making the girl next door, you're not going to have the power necessary to

Speaker 3

sn5-09:39

Have your thoughts

Speaker 2

sn5-09:41

Move.

Speaker 3

sn5-09:42

How long did you pursue these goals of understanding the truth before you made that final determination in your life? Celibacy with the,

Speaker 1

sn5-09:51

Well, I was celibate. You're going to put me through the membrane. I was celibate as a child, of course. And it was easy because? Because, no, I'm talking about I was 17 years old. I could have had sex if I wanted to, but it was beautiful. I had been in a seminary and everybody there was Sullivan and I thought, this is a beautiful way to live. Your head's clear. You don't want anything, you don't worry about anything. And that continued up until the time I was in college and college I met a girl and had a relationship with her. So I saw that was a wonderful experience to stay away from. You don't need that. So, because I realized consciousness is much more valuable than whatever happens in the pleasure field. I'm assuming that because you went into a Catholic monastery, you were a Catholic. I supposed to what? I was always a rebel though. Believe me. The sacrament of sex. That is part of the sacredness of sex. Yes. Oh, that's not sacred. Pigs do it. Dogs do it. That doesn't make it pro.

sn5-11:25

That doesn't make it pro. Well, you'd have to talk to the dogs and the pigs. I think it's profane. They think the dogs get something out of it. I'll tell you what it is. I'll tell you what it is. It's obsession. It's obsession. And you get, people get hooked on it just like you get hooked on booze. Sometimes you get hooked on booth, they find out that they're a slave, so they start drinking. They're unhappy with the situation. But I think there's a magic in it. I really believe it's a magic I, things happen that I can't do, even though I'm celibate, but I, things happen are favorable, but a long period of time. Creative sense. Huh? An creative sense. I had children. Yeah, I've been married twice. See, I had two, three, well, I had two children. My first wife, she had another child that wasn't before I met her. See my second wife, I had one child and I a celibacy regardless. And I find them healthier.

sn5-13:01

The whole thing about sex is basically after you do it so many times you think, what the hell? The draw. What's attraction here? The attraction is we're animals that can't control ourselves. You get the urge. We function like an animal. Well, if that's weakening you, then that's civilization. That's civilized. Civilized people, not just responding to an urge and you have to block it. That's all. You just have to, I find that thinking it's easier. Your health is better and you're like a free person. And of course it might sound strange. I was married, of course, I pulled some strange things. I married my first wife, I married her, she's pregnant.

sn5-14:09

I'm not kidding. That wasn't my kid. But her people were beating the hell out of her and she didn't have any money and she was trying to make a few bucks to feed the baby by diapers before it was born. And her parents were holy rollers and they believed that they should beat the hell out of her. And if she had a baby inside of her, could deformed the baby or something. And for the sake of God, beat the hell out of her because it's perfectly natural for people to have babies. So I went down to her house and asked her what she was going to do about the baby. And she says, well, I'm going to raise it. And I said, why don't you get married? She says, who in the hell will have me? I said, where? I said, I'll in about a week. He got married. I had two other children. Barr, the one by the other guy. Whoever he was was the smartest one on the bunch. Didn't flatter me too much. I believe there's, excuse me, I believe there's beauty in life, but at the same time, you got to watch it sometimes carry it too far you want to say.

Speaker 4

sn5-15:37

Do you think that making a spiritual discovery or having an experience like yours that already changes your after death experience?

Speaker 1

sn5-15:47

I don't know. I couldn't answer that. I could not see when things happen, when things happen out of the blue, if you're praying every day and that sort of thing, and then have an experience, I said, well, might've been the result of prayers or something like that. I wasn't praying. I was out there. I was out there to get married.

Speaker 4

sn5-16:06

I've heard you say before that people's after death experiences are not the same. Everyone does not find the same thing as that. And the implications sometimes about the importance of doing spiritual work and making some kind of a discovery while you're alive. Oh sure. The implication seems strong that by doing that you'll somehow improve the status of your

Speaker 1

sn5-16:29

After death experience. Well see. I can't prove that either. You take a gamble, if you think there's anything that's going to guard you, like an angel guard angel or something like that

Speaker 3

sn5-16:44

Of your feelings of your experiences for an after death experience. Yeah,

Speaker 1

sn5-16:51

I figured that. I saw what would happen. Very happy. I was very happy and I was amazed at the scope of it. When I landed there, one of the first things I thought was, I can have anything I want. I didn't want anything in particular. I did not. I like to seen some of the people on earth, but when they showed up, it wasn't my relatives. There were some people showed up, but now what cause of that was, I don't know. That could have been

Speaker 3

sn5-17:32

Make-believe. Did you see any of these in these since your experience in real life? No. You mean of these visions, the ones that you saw that

Speaker 1

sn5-17:42

Time? No, never. Didn't see them again. It's hard without getting a picture of what occurred, number one, the pain in my head. Where did it come from? That's what I never could understand. I can't believe that something pain is greatest and knock you out. Wouldn't kill you. You've got a hemorrhage or something up in there, see? So I don't know why that tremendous pain was there. And when I came out of it, when I fell, it's like I fell into a darkness. And when I came out of it, of course I was very unhappy and couldn't stop weeping. Stop weeping. And I thought I got to get out of town. And so town must be driving me crazy. Is

Speaker 3

sn5-18:33

This the darkness

Speaker 1

sn5-18:33

That brought

Speaker 3

sn5-18:34

You to this level? Do you think that this is the lowest level of the spirit?

Speaker 1

sn5-18:40

Well, I don't don't think it was that particularly. It was the idea that I had left the place that I thought was real. I thought it was real. Had you been studying zen before that? Huh? Had you been studying Zen before? Before? I have to figure. Oh yes. Yes. I was 30 years old when I went to Seattle. I Zen is rather complex and it's very simple, but it's complex. Just like we're trying to talk about healing. And I'll give you another example. This other course. Anyhow, I got Ill one time not feeling good. I couldn't shake it. So I tried to get out and walk us three, come back. So I walked down in the four or five blocks and come back home and just exercise. And so I stopped in a beer joint and they were playing re 25 cents hand. And I sat there and took my mind off of my trouble. Well, lost a little money. And of course I lost over a thousand bucks, I'd say before they got me the crazy ante, let put a dollar in a piece and bets went up. Size of the pot and all this thing. Well, I realized what they were doing. They saw through me that I had my hand shook when I had a good hand. So they'd bet bluffed me out.

sn5-20:34

So I decided, well, I'm put a stop to this. I'm going to call everything that looks anyway. If I get a decent of an hand, I called. And what they were doing were bluffing. I didn't raise them. I just called every time. Boy. They start losing. And it was like, just like a disease. They couldn't get back. I could tell you some stories about it. I didn't even know how to play Booker. I had to stop. And I say, wait a minute, our ACEs ones or are they underneath of a two or are they the top one on the deck? And they'd look at me and tell me the truth naturally. And ACEs were the highest card. I had five of 'em.

sn5-21:19

And a low card. Your low card was wild lowest card. You maybe heard about this stuff. And I didn't know if Ace was number one or it was number 13. And so they'd be betting. And you had a rule in the card game that you had to bet if you had a CI hand. In other words, keep from floating through and letting people bet for you and then play ignorant and rake you more money. But if you really put out a bet, they'd say, well, he's got something. But with me, I couldn't hide it. I couldn't hide it. They knew what I had generally, but I just got real honest with them. I'd say, give me a king. And they'd flip the card and there'd be a king. I'd have two ACEs. I'd say, I need another A card, be an ace. And it was uncanny. I've seen the guys get up and eat the cards. It get so frustrated and chew the cards. That one a new deck. Maybe I'm reading the back of or something.

sn5-22:39

But I'll tell you, it got my mind off of my illness. And I got my money back in maybe 9,000 more. I had a fall of them. They were doing the bet and I had to call them. So we'd go over across the river into Ohio and I'd buy a mistake dinner with their money. But to me it was magic. It was really magic. I literally asked for, they were dealing, not me. They'd be dealing and I'd say, give me an name, give me this. I get it. And I tell you, they got pretty upset too.

sn5-23:21

I didn't deal. I didn't know how to deal. I didn't want to deal with it. I left a deal. They'd been accusing me of stacking the deck. But this to me was, this was magical. It had to be, I didn't even know the power. I thought if I've got, for instance, if you got the low card and wild, did ever play that game, huh? No. Well, you just like this poker, but you play the lowest card in your hand is the wild card. So if you get two threes and you want to pick up another pair like Jacks, that'd be four jacks. But if you hit a two, you got three threes. You know what I mean? So I had to stop and ask them questions. So that's another stupid I then stop me from, couldn't stop me from winning. Yeah. But I believe in this that there's a tremendous lot of things you can do. Number one, if you're not being greedy or if you're not trying to cheat or something like that, I was trying to pass some time, forget about my illness, see? And so I just thought, well, I had to get back home and get some more money.

sn5-24:50

They cleaned me out. But then I thought, well I'll make sure. I'll make them show their cards. I'll call. And that's what wrecked. And it kept on. I mean it kept on I one, they didn't accuse me of something. They couldn't accuse me of anything. I wouldn't deal. I knew that, but I was amazed by it. That's all amazed by it. And like I said, I'll tell you an instance. When I met a girl, when I was getting ready to marry her, and I would sit with a person like I face, she get pulled up a chair and I'd sit, I'll tell you what was wrong with your health. And she was sitting across from me. Now there's some boys back there that know this party talking about they can corroborate this. And I saw a pair of, I saw a string of beads across her chest was inside someplace.

sn5-26:00

I thought, this is crazy. You could see little things like a thread between them. The thread wasn't extended as much as the beads. And then I saw from her, this part of her belly down all black. And I said to her, I said, you got some, are you wearing beads or anything underneath your address? She said, no. I told her, I said, I've seen something strange there. And I told her about the other part of her body being black. And she said, well, she just come down from Pittsburgh. She'd been living up there. She says, I'll you back up. I had an x-ray taken for some reason, I'll go and pick up the x-ray. And she brought it back and the reading would come with it. She had a line called the line of these aneurysms. No, no, they were granuloma. Huh? Granuloma. Granuloma. Yeah.

sn5-27:09

Granuloma a line of granuloma and a diagonal. Hold that out. Diagonal line across her chest. So I knew that I wasn't killing myself. Of course they only did the X-rayed her lung, not the lower body. See? So what happened is she developed two female trouble. Her uterus growed to her backbone. And that was, I didn't know what it was, but that's what I found out later about that region. So of course I don't say you can just do that. I always was tongue in cheek that I try it. See, but we'd have these CH tacos we call them. I'd see if people would've headaches and go put a finger on it. Right? On the point of it hurt. But now this is, where'd it come from? I don't know. I'm happy. I'm happy that I can do it, that I help somebody. And sometimes I think I'm bound to miss someday and see something that really didn't exist. But I never did. I never did. And I could go through a crowd of people and if they got a pain, I can see it, take it away. What's the procedure? I don't know. But the thing is that you just do it. You do it because it helps. It helps. And you don't charge. You don't charge. I mean, I'm happy. That's good enough for me. The fact that when it happens, that's

Speaker 3

sn5-29:20

Running out of time.

Speaker 2

sn5-29:26

People still have questions free perhaps talk

Speaker 1

sn5-29:30

Down front. We're out. We'll throw us out here. We throw it out. Do you? Well, we got plenty of time to hit the door. Feel free to. Sure.

Speaker 2

sn5-29:48

Also, Mr. Rose speaking at Chapel Hill on Wednesday night. Yes. Out on the table this coming Wednesday. Okay.

File sn6

NOTE: Files 5 and 6 were spliced together. 25 + 5 = 30 minutes total. File 6 = 5 minutes** see below. I was amazed by it.

Footnotes

End

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