1979-Moods-Ohio-State-unpublished

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Title	1979-Moods-Ohio-State-unpublished
Recorded date	1979
Location	Ohio State, Columbus, Ohio
Number of tapes	2 x 60 min
Other recorders audible?
Alternate versions exist?
Source	4 versions so far: MJ, DM, DW and MF, plus partial version from BM. The MJ version is lower fidelity.
No. of MP3 files	MJ version has 4 files: 32 min; 29 min; 32 min; 32 min; the others are roughly the same.
Total time	2 hours
Transcription status	Auto-AI 1st pass July 4, 2025 Rev.com. Mike Fitzpatrick did the book version in Direct-Mind Experience (Chapter 2). This version is significantly different
Working directory all versions	https://distribution.direct-mind.org/ (need password)
Latest version in PDF by title	https://www.direct-mind.org/pdf/ Finished: https://selfdefinition.org/rose/
Published in what book?
Published on which website?
Remarks	Rare material. Only 3 versions are known. See category "Moods" at top. The tape for the published version may not exist. A mythical 4th version from 1978 hasn't been located.
Audio quality
Identifiable voices
URL at direct-mind.org	https://www.direct-mind.org/index.php/1979-Moods-Ohio-State-unpublished
	For access to this wiki or the audio files please send an email to: editors@direct-mind.org
Revision timestamp	20250704142721

To Do

Side 2 the Bee Gees are playing in background; See if commercial version has this.

Must compare this recording with the published version. They are significantly different.

The published version also says 1979-Columbus. It's unlikely that Rose gave the talk twice in Columbus, so this is another puzzle and/or clue.

Notes

Transcript

File dm1

dm1-00:03

I am going to talk about moods. This is a takeoff. I want to explain a little bit about in the book, the book that I wrote is a new approach, let's say to psychology. Of course, zen is a new approach to psychology. I won't go into all the deviations that I have with so-called modern psychology right now, but I believe in a direct mind approach. I think this is the answer, and this is the aim of incidentally, the Coan as a direct mind experience as opposed to a logical process. But in the fifth chapter, the Algen papers was written as the sort of handbook I thought I was going to croak. So I hurried up and wrote it down and I didn't get into laborious detail or the proper explanatory form to I could have went on and I could have made a book possibly out of each chapter.

dm1-01:08

The fifth chapter had to do with the ways and means or the obstacles which you have to get around in order to achieve anything mentally. And in my years of meditation, I discovered that the greatest enemy possibly that man has is his own mind. And of course, this is a common discovery of, I think of anyone who's in zen very long. They find that they talk about killing the mind, and that's of course saying it rather brutally. But the mind kills itself after a while if you stare at it long enough. But the thing is that I don't go at it from the idea of say a mania or a phobia or anything of this sort. I noticed that the things that afflict people most are states of mind. And when I wrote this book, I submitted it to several people who had done a little bit of reading in psychology and they had never encountered, I see the word used now a good bit, but what happens is our lives are pretty much governed by states of mind.

dm1-02:21

The cause of them may be the accumulation of a lot of data in the old memory bank. It may be the results of a reaction to environment. Sure, that may play the part, but there's factors involved in the state of mind that transcend mere environment and heredity. We don't know where they all come from. I mean, you get into even thinking about reincarnation. Sometimes things come up. I was one of four boys, there were only boys in the family and there were four people in the same environment who read it. He was entirely different states of mind. And if I went, I don't want to shock you with my family, but I'd tell you something about it. But we were all absolutely different. Our philosophic goals were different. One boy had a religious inclination and I was supposed to have the religious inclination and I abandoned it for philosophy. But anyhow, I come to the conclusion there's a thing called a mood, one of the most dangerous possibly up. When we first encountered the mood, we discovered that it is something that's very dangerous because people that do drastic things are people who have been hooked in a mood.

dm1-03:46

Now of course, that's a word everybody understands and a psychologist lo to say, oh, so the fellow has got a fixation or something. Let's give it another word and pass it on. And I maintain that there's something singular, definite and very important about a mood. So I got into this thing of dreams. When you examine the person, let's say with an attempted objectivity, ask him questions, get him to answer and that sort of thing. You're not going to get answers. You're going to get excuses the biggest part of the time and you're going to get answers He don't even know he gave or he don't know why he gave them. He's given 'em to you because that's the customary thing to do in society. If somebody says, do you like this? You say, oh, yes, I like that. You don't like it at all, but you think you have to say it. So consequently, what do you pick up? If you really want to know a person, you step inside their head. This is the only true way to know a person. And you can't do this with logic. It will be done with getting your head in the proper mood that they are in.

dm1-05:04

There'll be a communication through mood. Now, I want to demonstrate this tonight, and I hope that if this is not clearer to you, I hope that you ask a few questions and because we're dealing with something that I think has not been covered too much before. So I find, and I'm going to check with you later, I want some answers from some of you. I did a study on dreams and naturally the only dreams you can study are your own. If you want to feel a dream, you can't feel another person's dream. And we're into this business now feeling dreams, and you have to feel your own. And as I'm talking to you, give you instances, and then you try to see how many of these things have happened to you. I find that there are three major moods in the dream world. When I call this a dream land or dream world, it is like a place, a state. One is fear, one is seduction, and the other one is nostalgia. And I wonder how many of you have encountered that word nostalgia before in the analysis of human thinking? We'll get down to them in a minute, but I want to briefly dwell on this business of sanity. Now, in all psychology, we're supposed to be after sanity. This is the purpose of it.

dm1-06:36

Years and years have gone by in the study of psychology. Psychiatrists have been graduated and have died in their practice and have not found the definition for sanity yet. There's nice little normal curves and stuff they talk about, but, and I don't intend to try to define it here. I think that you can give definitions that are more adequate than others. But the reason I'm bringing this out is that none of us will admit or say that delirium as sanity. We don't want to stay in that state. We can look at it from outside that state of mind and say, I don't want that to be permanent. Delirium is fear. There's a mood that comes on the mind. The mind is the body is asleep. The nightmare is fear.

dm1-07:27

Even to a point sometimes where some people think guilt, and one guy says Guilt is a mood. No, guilt is a combination of the fear and the nostalgia. So we say that these are moods that aren't necessarily the healthiest moods to have, but these are all we're stuck with these three. And the other is seduction. In all dreams, there's a time in your dreaming or for acquisition without question the mind, the unconscious mind of all people seizes. It doesn't. And again, some of you, I'd like for you to give me your own accounts if you will later on, but my own particular dreams was if I liked somebody in a dream, I grabbed them, I touched them. If they pulled off, I left them go. But see, there's no words going on. Approach. You approached, you saw something you liked. Might not be a person, it might be a little puppy or something, and you'd pick it up in the dream because you're attracted.

dm1-08:42

And I call all this form of attraction, whether you're attracted to the beautiful gold chalice or something like that, or whether you're attracted to a beautiful person. This is seduction that the mind is in the dream world, and this forms a tremendous bracket of the dream activity. Now the last one is an odd one. That sound will sound odd to you. That's nostalgia and the nostalgic mood on the face of things, it's not too significant. I don't think people pay much attention to them, but I maintain that nostalgic mood becomes the language of the soul and the guide of daytime behavior. Now, we'll see how this works if I'm right.

dm1-09:39

Another note I'd like to make of course, is that you might downgrade the experience of a dream. I don't want you to look at it from another angle for a moment, and it might be an esoteric gangel. I don't know if you're acquainted with that type of reading or it might be an esoteric psychology. And I dunno how many of you agree with me, but I maintain that we do not perceive with the census. Now, this is modern psychology is based only on what you see, and God help us. If we saw exactly what was there, we probably would be very confused in our actions. For instance, we know that there's an adjustment somewhere in the head. There's an adjustment goes on for the turns, the world back, right side up that dictates to us the hallucinations or illusions that we see and enables us to get by and survive mirage and holograms and this sort of thing because the eye doesn't deliver.

dm1-10:44

Also under hypnosis, you'll find out that the physical eye will appear to see something which the hypnotist projects upon the subject. Now we've done, some of you people probably witnessed these, a lot of experiments in this department where you can give a person a drink of water and they'll get drunk where you can tell them that a sack full of potatoes is a man and they'll treat it as a man or they'll dance with the mop. Or I had a girl playing a broom one time. She thought it was a guitar, her senses, and she was in a post hypno. I suggesting not in deep hypnosis, she was just under a post htic suggestion. This is the mind, the mind we perceive with the mind, not the census. And I think a little thinking will make this clear to you that what happens is you see stuff and the mind readjusts it and another step is formed.

dm1-11:42

It projects it back out on space, the mind projects back out. Now again, this would be laborious if I went into this bit of reasoning. There's a couple of books you can get on it. Plato's Republic is one that talks about the man in the cave. This gives you an example of how people see things inverted. Plato clear back in his time, saw the significance of this illusory world in which we live caused by our senses and caused by our beliefs. And the mind in turn can be fooled. The mind proceeds, but it still can be fooled because the mind under hypnosis is fooled.

dm1-12:33

Well, under hypnosis for instance, the mind can be induced through moods. You can induce the mind to have a mood. It can be nostalgic or it can be fearful. You can cause it to be afraid and do things out of simulated circumstances and artificial fear. Now you take, we have a basic fear that seems to come from not from necessarily having an education along that line. We like to think that things are the parents. The parents cause everything. The society causes everything conditioning. This is the big rage today that conditioning made the black man inferior and conditioning made the woman inferior. The rest of society did it, and that puts the conditioner and there's only one left, and that's the rascal has to support this whole thing. But I believe that there's a lot of, this comes from the basic moods of man. For instance, why are people afraid of a snake?

dm1-13:58

We were talking about this in the kitchen the other night. In the dream world, what do you see? What do you see? Basically? Do people dream of snakes because the snake, they've been told it's evil or something of that sort. It was a biblical thing. Or do they dream of snake because of se, Freudian symbol, which they wouldn't find in the Bible? In all of your dreams, how many have you dreamed just for the heck of it? Put up your hand. So we'll get some bearing on this. How many have you dreamed of bright light, bright shining light now, I mean a sun, like you get down through a vista and see the sun shining real brightly. What is the occurrence of that? You have no, I don't doubt that. But what is the proportion of that now to the dreams which were colorless and dull and somber.

dm1-14:56

Would you say 25% of your dreams were contained brightness, 10% or just once in a great wow? I have never dreamed a bright dream. On the other hand, if you dream something tremendously black, what mood does it put you in? If you dream of something light, then your head is light and gay. I mean, how do we react to a beautiful summer day? We feel gay. What do we react to? Pitch darkness. Is it the fear that occurs in the womb when there is no light? I don't know what causes it, but for some reason blackness causes the worst mood that you can get into. So what occurs then? We're trying to pick up the average color of a dream. What do you think it is?

dm1-15:51

I can only tell you what mine are. Some of you can tell me what yours are. It's gray. But by gray I mean everything's played down. Why? There are no words spoken. You pick up messages, but when you wake up and think back over your dream, it's very solemn. If a word is spoken, you can almost see it like it's printed on the wall. But generally you pick up messages from a person in a dream, from a direct mind contact. It's very rare that you'll see. I've had a tremendous lot of these where the I would dreams, they have a room this big just over to that wall, say 10 by 18, the people in front of me in the dream would be visible. Their features would be very clear. I'm going to mention some accounts of this. I couldn't see the wall in the dream.

dm1-16:40

It was like taking a picture of a grotto or a cave or something, and I was aware of one time I was dreamt of a girl walking down a road. I could see just like you take a spotlight and put it down on that girl on the road, I could see the road underneath her feet. I couldn't see the mountains behind her, but I knew the locale. There were mountains in the picture. I knew they were there in the dream too. I know exactly where she was, but I couldn't see them. They were invisible, only the road and her feet and herself.

dm1-17:10

But anyhow, what I'm getting at is that unless there's a lot of evidence and if there is a lot of evidence that there's a different color, if a person dreams in green or purple or something of that sort and a predominant number of them do, then nine chances out of 10, you're going to have the same effect as someone else would with gray getting into this business of fear, I want to go through the moods a little bit and give you an example of how these moods affect your daily life. If you frighten somebody when they're sleeping, it has a profound effect on a child. For instance, when they wake up, I don't know where these things come from that people are frighten frightened of, whether it's tradition or what, but a garter snake is a harmless little animal, but many people will throw themselves or nearly wreck their automobile or they'll jump over a cliff or he jump into briars or something to get away from a snake and take a person in jail.

dm1-18:15

We're talking about daylight moods, but this is the impact of a mood. A person in jail gets to a point where he becomes sometimes suicidal. There's no reason to be. Maybe he's only in for a misdemeanor, but we've had five cases right close to where I live, of people that hung themselves in jails for misdemeanors. It doesn't add up a mood settled on those people because they came in under an entirely different mood and the realization of a new reality was more than they could bear. Because incidentally, a mood is, I should define it for you. A mood is not something experienced and a mood is a channel of experience. A mood is a state of mind. A state of mind is not something that you observe. It's something through which you observe and you're caught in it. And the only way you can get away from a mood is after the mood passes. Now examine these things, and if you've ever been in a deep depression, you can't talk yourself out of a deep depression. You might drink yourself out of it. See, you knock yourself out. But then after you sober up, you'll say, boy, whatever caused that deep depression I will avoid in the future. That's the only way you can fight the moot. You can't fight it while you're in it, you're in it. It's just like as if you're in the middle of the ocean and you've got to swim, you've got to endure it, whatever it is.

dm1-19:44

So the thing grows. This becomes almost like a disease. The fear mood is like a disease. It is like delirium. It magnifies itself. Now, the seduction mood is very dangerous also. It's very violent, but the seduction mood passes because the aim of seduction may be reached. Frustration may set in if the aim isn't reached and you get tired of it and you forget about it and it'll go away. Maybe not as quick as the fear mood, but the nostalgic mood. We get into the nostalgic mood and for some reason we like the nostalgic mood. And what is a nostalgic mood? Basically, the nostalgic mood is something that brings back, uses the memory of pleasantness. I was reading something here by one of the authors. I was looking up some data on dreams, and I find that several authors have said this, that the most painful thing that you can have is a pleasant memory because if it's in the far past and you realize that you've drifted away from this pleasant way of living, there is nothing more painful than that.

dm1-21:12

And yet we reach for it. The art industries, the artful industries, the movies, the people who put on commercials, the people who paint billboards appeal to the nostalgic sense. They're a super psychologist without a name. What do you get today? You get a grandma's honey bread or a log cabin or down on the farm something say, or you get in the movies. You have the picture of the old cabin and the quaint old people sitting in the rocking chairs. The rocking chair is part of it. If you've got a color movie, what do you have? You have certain colors that impel mood, violet and lilac. Now of course, if they could hit you with a perfumes, you'd have a little set of perfumes. Also, what is the music of the mood? The violin, the flute, the stringed instrument, like the little harp, those things, the lute that I think, and occasionally piano, organ music or a nostalgic, especially if it's old music.

dm1-22:24

If it's music from another era. So when we're dreaming and it takes us back to our childhood or even to somebody you're living with, suppose this a man and wife, and there was a time when you weren't fighting. You go back in this nostalgia and what settles upon your mind? I'm sure everyone here has had this same experience. We have said, why can't we live that way? Everything is perfect. It's a shadowy thing. It's an elusive thing. It's a dream. But when you awaken, you say, why can't life be that way? We got along in 1,902, why can't we get along in 1982? See, so this is the reason we go for it. But now what I'm getting at is there's a consistent language in this mood. It isn't just somebody's log cabin. It isn't just look at the desire to become young again or the desire to become happy again. We touch something. There is something definitely touched.

dm1-23:52

In other words, both the others, both the other moods infer a negative quality. And I want to make a few notes here on some of these things to see if you pick it up in the movie industry where this was almost the sole motif, but appealed to something in you. You didn't know what it was at the time. There was a show come out years ago, our Town. I sat through it and I was amazed how they brought this out. They brought the mood in, and anybody see that? Our town weathering heights, little women gone with the wind. Most Western movies have it. Most Western. We've never grown up in a western town. For some reason, we feel as though that is home. These old plain old shandies and nothing small. Life is very simple, and all you need is a horse. How green was my valley?

dm1-24:46

The 10 commandments, my four sons farewell to arms. They're deliberately unreal. This is a seeming thing about nostalgia, that it is deliberately unreal and even the dreams, you know when you wake, Hey, that isn't true, but you'll be disturbed if this dream is disturbing enough. You'll lay there awake for a while saying what happened? What's trying to communicate with me? There is some truth here that is altogether contrary to the truth of daylight. The producers know the effect on the mind, and here's what they give you. Falsetto voices. I notice that the certain announcers on the television today are assuming falsetto voices, except especially the women. Some of the men too, I can't remember their names, but they don't talk like themselves. They're holding their jaw stiff or something to produce a sort of artificial voice. Orator tones, homes, Solomon, awe filled love scenes like Eleanor Porter's stories, little kids on the Prairie, what is his name?

dm1-26:04

Little House on the Prairie. See where everything, you know there's an old Jewish word for it's schmaltz, but this is how it's done. It's done with the schmalz, the log cabin, the parlor. All these people are very quaint. If they really existed, they'd be a little bit simple minded, but we can't help but love them maybe because they're harmless to being simple. Also, what type of love affairs occur in these movies? An artificial thing, an inhibited manner of seduction. There's a seduction in there, mingled in, because that's part of that mood. See, but these like the weathering heights and Jane a wrote to his books have inhibited fearful seduction, which appeals to a lot of people. But why? Even who does it? Nobody goes through inhibited seduction, but it appeals to the mind somewhere. Now, there must be a reason. It dis appeals. See, regardless of your religious background, people go to see those movies.

dm1-27:17

I remember one of the Trail Lonesome Pine, the whole movie is just about a parlor. The relationship between a mother. It was a matriarchal, seemingly a matriarchal society. The mother was very silent, but she was the force that everybody killed themselves for. The boys all went out, shot up. The neighbors, protect mother in the cabin. I maintain that the nostalgia mood has occupies almost like a disease and it's an infectious thing. Now, I'm not saying it's bad, I'm just saying it's an infectious thing that ceases and contributes to 95% of the behavior of the waking population, and the other 5% is split up between the seduction and the fear. Our motivation is largely we would be by deduction. I include acquisition, ambition, grabbing, whatever we can grab, and the fear of being stopped if he grabbed too much, or the fear that goes along with living, just maybe getting, driving the car down to work in the morning.

dm1-28:44

I think the best way to describe a season or a time when this sweeps the country or they try to make it sweep the country, the reason I'm bringing this up is I maintain that the human family, humanity itself is trying to live. They never get to it, but they try to live Pollyanna. They try to get people into the nostalgic mood. They encourage it. Now, just take Christmas. Everybody gets into the act of creating a mood for everybody in the country. Of course, there's some that rather cynically remark that this is a season for brainwashing or bewildering one segment of the population. So the other segment can get rich over the buying presence that no one needs. But regardless, there's a trend at that time that everyone gets into the colored lights, the color of the lights, the music, it's traditional. You hear it from the time you're a child, somebody ringing a little bell on the corner, the harmless old man and the whiskers, everything is decorated. Carols are sung, and the type of carols that are sung in turn are very nostalgic. The words don't matter in these things. What creates moods is the combination of the music and the effects of the music with the lights and that sort of thing.

dm1-30:21

So we have a generation of children who come up, which we were incidentally, and we encouraged this. I tried my best when my children were a little to break up the Santa Claus theme, but the idea is that after a while the child realizes there's no Santa Claus. But he becomes so addicted to that for years and years. He looks upon Christmas, not because he's greedy and he wants a gift so much, but there's a time of the year to them that is very real. He.

File dm2

dm2-00:00

I tried my best when my children were a little to break up the Santa Claus theme, but the idea is that after a while the child realizes there's no Santa Claus. But he becomes so addicted to that, that for years and years he looks upon Christmas, not because he's greedy and he wants a gift so much, but there's a time of the year to them that is very real. I think the people who perpetrated don't realize how real it is or what an effect it has on people. Now, I maintain that at this time of the year. You can see it. I maintain it's there all the time. And I think if we go a little deeper into this thing, in other words, nostalgia includes the consciousness of being conscious of what people basically want and what do people basically want? If you were to ask yourself, I popped this question to people at different times and after prolonged questioning, they'll come up with maybe something near to the same answers for everyone. But everyone wants acquisition without conflict.

dm2-01:21

Don't anybody tell you they don't want anything that they're going to just live for humanity. This is nonsense. They want acquisition without conflict. They want peace because we've been 10,000 years in the jungle and the whole archetypal memory of man is filled with enough of slaughter and we want love or some sort of permanency, some sort of permanency. And what is it that comes into your mind at these times when the mood is heavy? What is it that happens on Christmas? What does the child think? The child wants this to last forever. He's not bashful about telling you he wants this to last forever. The preacher gets up on the podium and says, make every day Christmas. Every Christmas. I've heard one of them get this off. I don't know whether they have a selfish motive or not because the contributions are heavy on Christmas or what, but the theme is there. This is the brotherhood of man is expressed at as its peak right now. Why can't we make every day a Christmas? But I get the feeling too that that same patriarch is somehow swept away by the mood that he likes the mood too, besides the effects of it.

dm2-02:47

So what do the dreams? If you go back in your dreams, you want a place the cottage represents the little cottage covered vines represents the place in which you live in peace and raise your children and your children become build beautiful children with no teeth marks on them from the jungle and a tremendous lot the songs, if you notice the songs that everybody remembers, it happened before my time. There were some of them were popular before my time and I still hear them occasionally, not too often. Occasionally I think the red sales and the sunset and the tone of that Ben Bolt. How many of you heard it? Alice Blue gown. Put my little shoes away. He's nostalgic. My eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord. That's a strange one. See, there was a time when he saw the glory of the coming of the Lord. It's a good time to look back on see the Bluebird over the white cliffs of Dover. You remember that one? There was a tremendous nostalgia in that one Kathleen ine way down upon this morning river old black Joe.

dm2-04:10

And what happens when you hear these? You hear your mother singing them again so that when the guy in the movies wants to turn on the schmalz, he turns on the movies and he touches you, he turns on the old songs and maybe even runs a little skit from something that's very expressive. Now it seems like that as I said, well, this doesn't look like it makes much sense for the human race to individually dream about an idealistic form of life. My contention is that he doesn't dream this. What happens is that he has one type of dream that picks up a thread.

dm2-05:00

We can't communicate our philosophy and words, but we can communicate by a direct mind experience. And there's a thread that runs through this that somehow things are perfect. There is a perfect way, and everybody's reaching for this perfect way in which everything in life is going to be smooth. Everybody that takes a little acid or smokes a little pot, he's got that nostalgia. Believe me, he taps it. But it's rough. See, it's painful because there's no nostalgia without pain. So if we could get down to the basic qualities, for instance of nostalgia or the components, the things that nostalgia promises for the person, kindness, naming them in what I consider their order of importance. To me, that's what I think you might have your own opinion. The second is love, peace, beauty.

dm2-06:14

Now here comes another word, eternality. How many have you had these dreams, these very moving dreams or these memories in which you sense this is the way it was from all time? Or this is the way it should be, this sense of eternality, this is the way you ever dream of people. I've had this thing happen to me repeatedly where there'd be somebody that I didn't like too well. I'd really not care to associate with them and I would have a dream for that person. And in the dream, an entirely different person talk to me, a person who's okay because the egos of the daylight conflict or communication were gone. You're dealing with somebody who doesn't have a body now there's no danger. And for some reason there's a direct mind communication that tells you these people do the best they can. And so we're communicating with people who have a knowledge of their own inability to do any better.

dm2-07:25

Now this we project on all people, this thing, this thing. I'm talking here and I need to plug that thing in so I guess somebody will get it. Nevermind. We project this out and this is what makes our liking for the nostalgic mood. We want everyone. We want peace. We want people to be inoffensive. In fact, we elect the most inoffensive people to office and sometimes consequently the most useless because we're afraid of having somebody violent. It's written all through all of our public actions and anything we do. And collectively we look for inoffensive people. We look for peace. And regardless of the cost, sometimes we look for peace. Maybe it's not pragmatic because you've got to get everybody believing at once. But we carry this through and in all of our opinions of stuff, as I said, we look at a politician and if he can convince us that he doesn't dislike anything that he is for everything.

dm2-08:34

Of course, a man is for everything and doesn't have any hate, strong feelings, doesn't have much backbone. But nevertheless, we like him. See because we're aiming in that direction of hoping that everybody's going to be smooth and no ripples. But we pick these people also as actors we're continually doing, and I don't know how much of a ball of wax we roll up before we have to undo it, but we pick people who are nauseatingly placid in our television scripts. See, the actor has to be humble. The humble has to be aggressive. Now see and that sort of thing because they have to prove how humble the aggressive man can be. See on tv I was looking at this, the ideal school teacher, a character called Kotter. Is that right? A sort of nut. See as a semi illiterate threat, he's no threat. I mean no threat to the underprivileged.

dm2-09:38

So to appear as no threat to the underprivileged, yes, come across as a nut. See, and this is the type of theme that we want to settle for, and I say what the cop movies instantly we're swamped with cop movies Now who are they're bishops. They're all helping the little league right after school, after work, they run down and play ball with the little league or they go out and romp a little bit with the motorcycle gang to show that they're regular fellows or something of this sort. But the main thing is that the cop has a bad image and he's a tough man and we've got to continue to reassure ourselves that he is a sweet, very sweet fellow underneath. He just has to. He's told if he wants to get his paycheck and he has to look mean. So we got to get you used to that way back there.

dm2-10:32

We had a series of stuff written by Eleanor Porter out of Eleanor Porter came the word Pollyanna. And the word Pollyanna expresses more than anything else the mood of mankind. I'm saying the mood of mankind because when the chips are down, we will try to conform to this. Pollyanna and I maintain. Pollyanna comes from the nostalgic, the little girl that everybody wanted to be the little girl that everybody wants their daughter to be or their little sister to be. See, and I don't say that this comes from weakness alone. I maintain that there's a language that somehow is communicated through the dream world and it is such with such force that we accept it little by little fragment by fragment until destiny or the blueprint for the creation or just plain reaction throws it out.

dm2-11:38

Now, I had some instances about this business of we could spend a lifetime. To give you an example, a man spends a lifetime building up a business by logic. He studies the book, he studies mathematics to see how the stock market's going to work. And he builds up an empire and he has a dream and he blows his brains up. A logic and argument may put a man into a successful business, but a single dream. Now we have cases. You have cases of this. And as what I said, a person that's very happy a boy, these were all young people, four boys and a girl that hung themselves and hanged themselves. Just recently. They went into jail, very happy. They were kings of the world. They had the ideal method of living and all at once, reality, the real reality of this, neither world struck them and there was no escaping from it. The attempt in a brief moment of sobriety, the nostalgia of getting back to mom and apple pie and the simplicity of living is more than they could stand.

dm2-13:02

Now, I have to give you an instance. A man, my father told me this is when he was traveling. My father was a hobo and he met another hobo in a jungle in Arkansas, in a hobo jungle and some one of the bums that a violin played the violin. This fellow had left his wife and children about 15 years before. He was so fed up with female relationships that he was willing to part with the kids too. But somebody started playing his violin and this man packed his little duffle bag and went home. Just one mood, one little thing, put him back in this state of mind, of nostalgia, of memory. And I maintained that this nostalgia, it is not just something that is negative that happens to people. I maintain that it's like a wavelength. It's a direct mind wavelength. And when you're in it, you can pick up this universal mental attitude.

dm2-14:15

Everybody's in agreement. My belief is the man played the violin and any man that was capable picking up that nostalgia would've had it. And possibly everyone there had it, but they didn't have the traumas that the nostalgia brought out or the realization of the revelation. A man sitting in jail on death row, can you figure out, he would know what? He would go through his head in the line of dreams that carried over into the daylight. When he woke up in the morning, he wouldn't know if he had executed him and this was a nightmare and he had to go through it again or whether he's still awaiting death and all this sort of things. What nostalgia would mean for that man to a point where he becomes upset, believing in the crime he committed, may have been the conviction. He may have said, I am in the right. I have to defend my family. I'm talking about a particular case, which I know very intimately. A man gets shot and he told the judge To hell with you, I defended my family.

dm2-15:19

They put him in prison. The conviction of the daylight hours melts. When the mood settles on you, you're wrong. You suddenly become wrong regardless. Just because you're in prison, I don't care. No matter how right you are, that mood would settle on, you see? So it takes a person who survives the mood several times to come out of it and become strong enough to bear it. This same man that I speaking of shot a man, he told me when he was in prison that he went through a bit of hell. He was sentenced to death.

dm2-16:08

The jury tried to hang him, but because of the fact that he was protecting his family, they put him in prison. I think it was life for 10, 20 years, something like that. He has a dream of the man he killed. He said he didn't say a dream. He just says, the man came to me and forgave him. When the man came to him and forgave him, his anxiety disappeared. How could these convictions be so strong? How could a man who believes he's totally right just by virtue of a mood, like somebody blows smoking to his cell and now he's in another state of mind, become totally convinced that he's worthless and that he's doomed and he played these cards wrong and that there was no other chance he's going to lose his family, he's lose his property and everything else. And then another thing, another dream comes along, a communication that says, Hey, what did Gary Gilmore say when they were talking about the two people he shot? He said, don't worry about them. They were supposed to be shot, same as I'm supposed to be shot.

dm2-17:21

So there's a time. Did that come as a result of dreams? I don't know. I've read what I could on Gary Gilmore, but I don't know exactly what brought it about, but he had went through enough. This was a communication he had just a few days or a few hours before they shot him, but he came up with this, that this takes a revelation. A man's not going to tell himself when he's dying. That's alright to shoot people. It's a revelation that he was, as I say in the ba, he was only an instrument of a higher power of something that had to happen. Now we get into another thing in this line, and the big game now is to try to get this nostalgic mood, to use it as a channel to find out what you're supposed to do or to contact, let's say a major plan.

dm2-18:13

That sounds way out to you maybe. Okay. How about the Australian Aborigines? Some of you have been into anthropology on this. The Australian aborigines has a big brother, an older brother, when he throws his boomerang, he could throw his boomerang out that door and hit a man in the head sitting on a bench out there because his older brother can see it. He can't. He contacts something and he's supposed to be a primitive, but are you acquainted with that? I mean, if you're not, you can get into this, but that's how they've been seen, known as Hit a rabbit, they'll throw a boomerang over a hill, they'll stand for a while and consult. Everything they do is from consultation with this state of mind, which is common to them, at least to their form of humanity. I think it's common to everybody. I think they're just a little bit better off than we are in being able to touch it.

dm2-19:15

Now again, I don't mean to infer that all dreams are going to take you in this direction. As I said, I think some of them are. There's just random dreams. There's prophetic dreams. There's dreams that you'll find out that they seem to have come to you for a reason. But I do say this about all, there are certain factors of all dreams. All dreams are largely gray. And I believe that the reason they're gray is because the light is fickle. The experiences we have in daytime are illusory subject to illusion, and there is nothing seen in the darkness. And darkness is the image of despair. But I maintain that there are certain dreams that give you the mood. You don't have to analyze it. You'll know it when you wake up the next morning. Sometimes you'll hang around with that dream for an hour saying, Hey, what happened here?

dm2-20:14

I maintain that there is a basic harmony. I believe there's a basic destiny, a sort of blueprint for mankind. And if we work it, I think there's a voice there that tries to say, relax. Relax. If you fight, if you fight and you hurt your fellow man, or if you struggle too hard, you're only going to get what's destined to be gotten in the first place. And this language is another thing is, as I said, it's eternal. I maintain that. It doesn't change. Of all the people I've talked to about dreams, the mood remains the same. The eternality is in this nostalgic dream and in that nostalgic dream, people, we get better readings about people than we ever get in any other type of dream.

dm2-21:13

Now, to give you some example that this has been common knowledge previously, I maintain that what happens in the poetic sense in the certain artists and poets, I think are able to pick this up in the daylight hours, so to speak. In other words, they can get into a certain mood in which they get in contact with what we might call it, the zeitgeist or a universal language of sorts. And then they labor to try to put that down. And that's the reason for the rhyme. Also, the reason for the color on the canvas is they desperately tried to recreate that mood to bring that message. And I heard the boy tell you that I'd had an experience when I was 32 years of age. I tried for years and years to write something down about it. And I found it was everything seemed inadequate and foolish.

dm2-22:09

I just couldn't get anything written down. And then one day I sat down and it was like automatic writing. Something came out and it was a form of blank verse. And to me, it's the closest that I could ever get to describing what happened. And it is not saying this happened such and such a feeling followed such and such a feeling, or these words were uttered or I saw this or that. Basically you're entering a dimension is far beyond anything that's objective. The world melts. The world disappears, and how do you describe a world that disappears? And so consequently, I was so profoundly moved by it and that I guess I think the thing went through my computer enough that I tried to do something and I finally laid the A. But I got into a book later. Bucky's caused me consciousness. And I was amazed at first when this thing happened to me.

dm2-23:12

I thought, I keep my mouth shut because nobody's ever had the experience and they'll put me in a nuthouse if I talk too much about it. But I saw that there had been some of the things that I had never encountered before, and Bucky had done some research and compiled them into a book. But just for, let's say for momentary observation here, these are some instances of old writings. Some of them are old Whittier. It's from an old Canadian song, from the lone s, she on the Misty Island. The sings of Cabin Mountains divide us in the waste of seas. Yet still the blood is strong, the heart highland, and we in dreams be old Heide. I think most of you have heard that someplace or another, the Hebert of the islands off because of Scotchman longing for the islands of Scotland off when the wine in his glass was red, he longed for the wayside. Well instead and closed his eyes on the garnished room to dream of meadows and Clover blooms. That's Whittier's Mod Miller.

dm2-24:21

There's just a couple of these. It kind of gives you an idea that just poets have been aware of this. The tremendous impact of the rich man is drinking his wine and which is back in the Ha shed. There's not in this life sweet if men were wise to it, but only melancholy. Oh, sweetest, melancholy. This is John Fletcher. There is a kindly mood of melancholy that wings the soul, John Dyer. Now there's something that you, I don't know if you're you're acquainted with, but that's Carl Young and I don't pay attention. Freud has got a lot of, Freud has got a whole book full of dreams and I can't see any point to them at all much in analyzing the real quality of the human mind. What matters is that a certain if dreams tell you something about the person, if you get a feeling, oh yeah, this is the reason for this.

dm2-25:56

These were dreams that young had. I was in a region like the Alley camps near Arley. There they have a lane of sarcophaga which go back to mar of engine times in the dream. I was coming from the city and saw before me a similar lane with a long row of tombs. They were pedestals with stone slabs on which the dead lay. They remind me of old church burial vaults where knight and armor lie outstretched. Thus the dead lay in my dreams, in their antique clothes with hands classed the difference being that they were not used out of stone. But in a curious fashion mummified, I stood still in front of the first grave and looked at the dead man who was a person of 1830s. I looked at his clothes with interest, where upon he suddenly moved and came to life. He unclassed his hands, but that was only because I was looking at it.

dm2-26:45

He went from one to one, and these corpses unpassed their hands. Now this tells me that this is a young, had a strong nostalgic sense for the German background. He talks as if he would like to have remembered the, we lived in the days of the magic folklore, ancient old Germany. But the dream signifies to me that this, first of all, he's dreaming of ancient corpses that still lives. And the thing, it is not a macabre dream. It's a dream of hope. He puzzles at it that the thing happened and he doesn't bother to give too much explanation. And he mentions that one of these dreams changed his life. I'm trying to get through to the point.

File dm3

dm3-00:00

It was extremely unpleasant, black and opaque as the words are very similar to the gray feeling just as I felt then. But I had a vision of an earthly beauty and that was why I was able to live it all. Liverpool is the pool of life. That's where he was. The liver, according to an old view, is the seed of life and that which makes men live. He was actually throwing in these synchronistic relationships. This dream brought with it a sense of finality. I saw here the goal had been revealed. One could not go beyond the center and his psychology. He had been, as Freud had been doing, he had been looking into behavior what the fingers and the feet do. And it dawned on him that if he really wanted to understand human nature, he had to go back to the center of the self.

dm3-00:46

And this dream caused him to take this course. And of course the result is we have a tremendous interest in young to the point. There's a lot of young in societies. The center is the goal and everything is directed toward the center. Though this dream, through this dream, I understood that the self principle and archetype of orientation and meaning therein lies its healing function. For me, this insight signified an approach to the center and therefore to the goal. Out of it emerged a first inkling of my personal growth. Now the reason I'm digging these up is because when course makes a statement and says Dreams can have a profound effect upon your life, it may be harder to take. It may be a still harder to say that to the dreams. The dream world of man dictates and it doesn't dictate directly. It is a continual urge of man to go back to that internality of perfection in which there's no more trouble.

dm3-01:52

Not only my own dreams, but also this is life after death incident. Life after death. The more the dreams that convince us of life after death are also working toward this principle of internality. That is, I think is a threat is the main theme, the nostalgia. We want to live in the old cottage back in the hills forever. Not only my own dreams, but also occasionally the dreams of others helped to shape, revise or confirm my views on life after death. I attached particular importance to a dream which a pupil mine, a woman in the 60 dreamed about two months before her death, she had entered the hereafter. There was a class going on and various deceased women, friends of hers sat at the front bench. An atmospheric general expectation prevailed. She looked around for a teacher or a lecture but could find none. Then it become plain that she herself was the lecturer for immediately after death. People had to give accounts of total experiences of their lives. The dead were extremely interested in the life experience of the newly deceased brought with them just as if the acts of experience taking place in earthly life and space and time. The decisive ones.

dm3-03:05

Here's another one in this dream, as in an assemblage of distinguished persons of earlier centuries, signifying that in his just passing over into sleep, he was one with the past. He called them illustrious ancestors in the black rock temple. He dreamt his father. There was a very outstanding thing that happened in relation to his dad. His dad had passed away 22 years before his mother had, and he hadn't dreamed of his dad for 20 years. And this particular night his dad came to him in a dream and said, you studied psychology and made out at it, and I want you to explain to me a marital psychology. And he thought, he woke up and he thought that was kind of weird. But then he remembered that his dad and mother had fought quite a bit. They had argued weren't too friendly. And the next day he got word that his mother had died in another town. And he took this as a direct communication, of course, that the father was preparing for trouble once more. See, now I like to bring this kind of into knit up the loose ends and these, I'm going give some what I consider possibilities the result from this observation that we just made.

dm3-05:04

Number one, we can learn to contact the eternal language of the soul, but we must be firmly centered first because of the anguish or fascination can affect or shorten a person's life. I think a person can get into a mood and you can communicate with people in different times. Now, to give you an example of this, if you care to hear it, I met a man, I don't know how long ago it's been. Andy Martin was a kid about 10 years old. How old's Andy now 28. Well, that's been about 18 years ago. Then 18, 20 years ago, I met him in Akron. This man was enlightened.

dm3-06:00

The people in Goodyear, it was good Firestone, not Goodyear, Firestone Tire and Rubber. Some scientists had been told that he was coming up to Akron and we were meeting in, this friend of mine were meeting in his garage because he had 10 kids. They were house apes and they wouldn't let you talk in the house. So we went out in the garage with this brilliant man to hear him talk and he looked like the crazy Guggenheim and he, Jackie Gleason sidekick, I mean he was a double for him. He looked like he'd been cooked in alcohol. But this man started talking about his experience and I was very much impressed. I was impressed by the candor with which he described things that the average man would say, lock him up. He's nuts. He had the ability to step back in time whenever he chose for a long, I don't know if he continued it, but he could step back and observe history.

dm3-07:02

He could watch the Battle of Gettysburg and I'd heard that Sweden bird also was capable of doing this. Sweden would be walking down the street and be talking to St. Paul. But you can develop, they talk Aus Levi talks with the fascination, the addiction to the spirits of the dead. So it can become morbid and it can become fatal whereby a person becomes the retreat from society and they get back into fetal introversion, inversion or whatever. So I believe that you can get it, you can allow yourself to enter these moods if you wish, but there's a trick to keeping your consciousness on your point of consciousness so that you know that you're in the mood. This is the point. And of course, as I said, we can learn about life after death. We can learn that there possibly with conviction that there's no such thing as death. We can learn that this twilight languages influences the behavior of all men alike so that the social trends are created and preserved as in tradition by the common archetypal, drive for peace, love, and creation without destruction, a sort of Pollyanna fence built around each man by his soul to encourage him to play out his life role in resignation and not rebellion to it. That's the voice. That's what the voice says.

dm3-08:41

We can learn from these dreams that man subconsciously, if not, if not in his soul, if he doesn't sense this in his soul. Now, I'm not speaking loosely when I talk about the soul of man, I am talking about there's comes from someplace inside of a man besides his memory bank move toward an even and consistent accord. Not intense joy or unending regret, but a common mood of patience and understanding. This is one of the things we enter into when we're in this dream world or whatever it is. We developed this ability for patients and understanding and seemingly the other parties that we meet have it too.

dm3-09:22

And we also learned such things as dreams must conform to a balance or else they would drive man to lethargy on this plane. In other words, if we just said, well, let's get in the mood and stay, there's what I said he'd become. And I think some people do. I think this accounts for a lot of the lethargy that we're manifestly. We're here for a purpose and there's a little test you can give this I maintain and you don't have to agree with me, I'm just throwing this out for what it's worth, that this mood is arrived at best, unless you're a poet or some artist that's able to pick this up, tune in on it. Like with a selector switch. When you're horizontal, when you lie down, you can think that's the reason a psychiatrist puts you on a couch. He subconsciously knows it that you'll get into a mood and you'll express your mood better if you're horizontal.

dm3-10:24

So that the approach to that. And for instance, suppose you have a nightmare and you wake up in the morning and I've had not nightmares, but I've had these very nostalgic things in which I said, Hey, this is the real world, and if this is the real world, why should I get up? So you lay there and wobble with this thing back and forth, but once you get on your feet and start moving and it seems absurd, this is the point and it's supposed to seem absurd. And if you sit, the yogi sits for these feets crossed and he sees visions and he enters states of mind, but he does not reach this language. When I was a young fellow right here in Columbus, there was a man studying yoga, and I was more or less making fun of him, joking with him. And I said to him, what do you do?

dm3-11:17

I was thinking of half of yoga. Everybody's sitting their postures. He said, I'm studying my dreams. I thought, oh boy, what a pastime. This guy's taking the easy, right? He don't even stand on his head. Anybody can study their dreams. But I believe that the dreams of the door to this thing and the key to Lord knows what I'm not saying just to, in other words, to the future perhaps if you can see the past, you can see the corpses of the 13th century. Why can't you see the corpses of the 22nd century? Because this, I'm going of course from the old space time concept that time doesn't exist outside of space and the space doesn't exist outside of time. So that we live in a space time continuum. I'm throwing that out again because this is a poor way of saying what you experience when you receive the totality of everything, that there is no motion.

dm3-12:16

There is no motion, of course, there is no universe and there is a universe, very real universe which doesn't exist. So on in these dreams, for instance, we have a dread when we're in the waking state that we're going to die because evidence points to it that people lose consciousness. It's very disturbing to realize that when you sleep, you are obliviated. And the logical response to that is that, well, I think the, the Greek word for death is thanatos, which means long sleep or something of that sort. This was pretty much everybody concurred on this, that that's what it was. The death was nothing but a long sleep or sleep was nothing but a short death. But the thing is that the consciousness as we know, it cannot survive. I mean, our consciousness, first of all is wrapped up in manifest physical illusions. And if we find a consciousness through this, if we find if we're with this voice that comes to us that, like I said, this hunger for e eternality comes to us in this media, why not explore it?

dm3-13:45

See, because through this door of sleep, it's very possible that we'll be able to pick up. And the reason I say this is what is death basically? Why do we fear death so much is because we're afraid we'll never see mom and dad again or the children again, or that the old man before he dies can't remember what his house number is. What's he going to remember after he dies the memory shot? Now this is not true because in the dream world, you can't never forcefully try to remember. But anything that you want to remember can be recalled and you've forgotten about it. How many times have people dreamed, and I've done this repeatedly of a man I hadn't seen for 40 years or even thought of for 40 years. Boom, there he is in detail, his house and everything. And incidentally, I have even dreamed of houses I've never been in. And when I went in, they were exactly as I dreamed of. So if these faculties are available through this dream world, it gives us an entirely new slant on what type of human being exists or what part of us exists after a death.

dm3-15:00

Here's something else you can think about. You can toss it out or accept it. Beauty, we all look for beauty. It's kind of a wild goose chase, but is the eternal reflection of absolute reality or the reflection of real meaning or the real eternal language. Now the reason I say the real eternal language, because in this nostalgic language, it's not wrong in our language, we labor and struggle for words and that sort of thing to try to say something. And like I said, when I had the experience, I could not put it down in logical language. I had to write it in a mood and try to convey the mood to somebody else. And through the language of the mood, pick up a philosophic verity. And incidentally what I just read is a quotation from young, okay? Beauty is the eternal reflection of absolute reality or the reflection of real meaning from this mind strato see or the real eternal language. Now, I think perhaps some of this is still vague. I realize that it's, we can make it less vague by talking about it. So I'm going to suggest that maybe some of you ask some questions.

dm3-16:41

These two other moves, seductive mood, fear,

dm3-16:53

Coordinate

dm3-16:55

The nostalgia. See, I believe that the fear, mood and the seductive mood are the aggressive and the balanced moods of animal kingdom. Is that what you were asking about? In other words, I think every animal has the fear, every animal, if the dog chases the chickens and you hit him with a rock, while he is in the act of chasing the chickens, you may develop a fear of chasing chickens. And so consequently it prolongs his life. We don't have to shoot him. So yeah, fear is healthy. See, they talk about people being paranoid and certainly I believe paranoia is perfectly normal. Paranoia can become abnormal if you go into a depression from fear or a fugue to where you curl up and get back into the fetal stage or something. But the seduction or aggressive thing is natural other side of man. He wants a bigger piece of this biological thing he's living in that he can get. He goes out to seduce his mate, he goes out to the cat, goes out to seduce the mouse, he charms him before he eats him. See, and this is the general acquisition that all human nature is. And so consequently there's a dream world behind that. There's a mood that permeates that he gets into a certain mood and it's not hard for him to eat to head off a mouse. I wouldn't care to do it myself. See, but his seductive mood takes him in that direction.

dm3-18:31

You mentioned a couple things. You said first of all that you cannot remove the mood, and then you said later on that you have to survive the mood and become a better person. That right? Yeah,

dm3-18:43

Sure.

dm3-18:44

How come you say you cannot remove the road? Can't you change the environment?

dm3-18:48

Change the road, not while you're in it. See, because it is basically, it's just like a fellow drops acid into his stomach or however they drop it. And so he gets into a mood and he says, Hey, I want out. He doesn't get out. It plays itself out. And a mood is pretty much the same thing when you get into this, when you get into, well, I believe that. I believe that what I'm saying is self-evident that I talked about a man. You got to get extremes. If you understand anything, there are light moods and you can argue about them for a long time, but you take a man, say it's awaiting death in the electric, they're going to execute him. You can't remove that man's mood by any type of argument. He'll have to run through it just like a person. He can't change his environment. Well, he could change it after he wakes up or if he ever gets out of jail or if he maybe some philosophic watching of that mood, it would become less and less influential. That's the point. If the man was going to be electrocuted

dm3-19:58

And suddenly that released from jail has moved, it obviously changed because he was removed from the mood circumstances.

dm3-20:04

Yeah,

dm3-20:05

Right. That's why I don't understand why you're saying you can't

dm3-20:07

Remove yourself from the mood because I think if you change the circumstances, I mean, well that's sure, but I'm saying you can't change it while it's on You sure you can change it by what happened to you after the mood passes and you can say, well, I'm not going to let myself get in that situation again. That's what everyone tries to do. So from the experience you learned not to let right now you take some people, don't you just take some people don't take the alcoholic. I don't know too much about drug addiction, but I always came up in an alcoholic age long before the pill. But what does the alcoholic do? He gets into a mood, a depressive mood. And instead of him coming out of that, he deepens and deepens until it kills him, until he can't get out of it. This is an old story.

dm3-20:57

He just gets into a deeper and what is it? It is a combination. Again, I say it's a combination of a wrong reading, of a nostalgic thing. He remembers the time when his mother admired him, his wife loved him, his children respected him. That's nostalgia. He sees a beautiful picture that he can't get back into and he degrades himself with the thing. And so he can't pull himself out of it. A majority of people who get into deep moods require somebody to pull them out. Now I say sometimes if they get out, but what happens too is there's a strange egotistical circle to an alcoholic. Most alcoholics that is, they get free of it momentarily and they're profoundly convinced that they're free of it forever. Maybe they're dry one day and they say, oh, I got it licked. Now I can take a little drink. Can he takes a little drink and two and three. And then the depression is worse than it ever was before because he slipped again.

dm3-22:01

But I believe that it is possible. I'm saying it's very difficult to get out of a mood. But the main thing, what I'm trying to bring, there's a lot of data been thrown out here today. I think it is very important for you to be aware of. And that is that first of all, the states of mind are the most profound influences on man, not immediate, not sure. You can get down the street and a billboard can throw you into a mood and we're not aware of it. And in that mood, you may pick a brick up and throw it through a plate, grass, glass window or punch a policeman and wind up in jail. And when they say, what did you do? What happened? What was wrong? You'll say, well, that guy, I didn't like the way he looked at me. You're not going to say I was in a mood.

dm3-22:48

Very few people are aware of the fact that everything they do is caused by moods. What is a mood? A mood is a profound conviction. This is the definition, a mood. There's a difference between a fancy full thought. There's a difference between a perception and a mood. A perception is the billboard, the mood is a whole state of mind that boom, you're in it. See, to give you another example, this seduction thing is very strong, but it passes. It's not quite so addictive because nature just put in a factor that you eventually get tired, but you get in a certain situation and I've heard guys say, boy, I wouldn't associate with that woman for any amount of money. And the next thing you see them going down there, dazed, look in their face, arm in arm, see the mood is on them and they don't know what happened and don't say anything or you get in trouble. See? Yeah.

dm3-23:57

You mentioned in a lecture they had tape up one time that at the peak of each person's childhood that he has a certain type of intuition and to the maximum at that time. I was wondering if you could give some sort of indication of the time that that would be maybe in relation to when he learns to talk.

dm3-24:16

I think certain things are reached their peak or certain characteristics of childhood that reached their peak at certain different times. I think that there's, for instance, I think this is the reason that a child loses its value is because of seduction. And this is one of the reasons that I make a loud noise for morality, especially in regards to little children. I don't believe in allowing anyone that has the temerity to have kids, to allow those children to be thrown into improper moods or to be destroyed by excessive education, what they consider education, which may be destruction. Now I'm going to again say something I can't prove, but for what it's worth, I believe a child is born and there's some women present. Maybe some of you have had children, maybe you've picked this up with your children.

dm3-25:12

I didn't pick it up until my grandchildren were born. I knew of it, but I really didn't have time to look at my own kids. But at the time, look at my grandchildren a little closer. The child is angelic. The child when it's first born for a period of time provided and it hasn't been born in two or two, rude in atmosphere, I think has lives in a different plane, has a direct mind. And as the child gets older, it drops this by virtue of seduction, we seduce the child. How do you seduce the child? You sing lullabies, you scream at it, you shout at it, you make crazy noises and motions to attract his attention. You stuff food into its mouth. I don't care whether it eats or not. Scores gets hungry. When it gets hungry, it brings it back to this stomach that the stomach's there, which is pretty much oblivious of Now, I've watched children through these different stages.

dm3-26:21

I've mentioned this before. There's quite a few women who have had mothers sense of this, but I have, I've been fortunate enough to get inside my grandson's head. I have grandson and granddaughter and I could see that they were adult people in a dream state peeping out occasionally and saying, what is that nightmare, that old character with the whiskers doing here tormenting me or something like that. See, there's just a vague irritation going on. But after the seduction that comes out and then the teacher gets ahold of it, I mean the parent laboriously says, apple food eat and repeats and repeats and repeats. And the kids says, damnit, I want to eat. I'm going to have to learn those words. See? So he becomes seduced into this business of living with relative language when he had direct language before. Now there's no alternative to it.

dm3-27:23

There's no alternative to it. Although I think it's some primitive peoples that don't care so much about whether the kid becomes a genius or not. They show a tremendous, like was out in the west there, the little Navajo kids playing in the desert and they seem to be very, very aware of a tremendous lot of things right on the edge of the Grand Canyon, in fact. And their parents weren't a bit concerned about them falling off and I don't know if any fall off or not, but right within three feet of a tremendous, clear thousand feet. But these children struck me as having a wisdom, a basic direct mind capacity that we have somehow lost for our children. And this is the name of the game. Get your kid brutalized as quick as possible because that'll help you to withstand the brutality of life and the strain that he's got to go through in competition.

dm3-28:19

You talked about moods and moods and the dreams. You really seen him two moods going on, one in your present state, unconscious state and the other. How do they relate

dm3-28:33

To each other? Well, that's what I reason when I talked, I didn't separate them too much because they carry over. In other words, when you're in the waking state, the man is sitting in jail. He gets into a mood and he's awake, but he's in touch with the same type of fear, mood. He'd having a nightmare. And sometimes I say sometimes he wakes, he don't know if he's still asleep or not because he doesn't know which side of the fence he's on. But these have the same symptoms and the same destructiveness or the same benefit whether you're awake or asleep. But what I maintain is that there is more conducted through the sleep. There's more conducted. The mood is subject to the influences of the time. And most any mood, like I said, when a man is walking, he's logical, he becomes pragmatic. When he's sitting down, he becomes receptive.

dm3-29:28

And when he's in a yogi posture may even have visions. He may even have great mental revelations, but it's only when he is horizontal that he has the contact with the direct mind. That's my belief. And he does it. You can't do it because there's no words. You can't do it with words. And that's the reason I say that this will be if there's ever a communication after death, if these are real people talking to people like young and I've had them talk to me, my relatives, if this is any communication, their only way they can communicate with you is through a mood. And when you wake up, you look back, their lips didn't move. You ask them questions and they answered you and you remember the words, but you notice that they didn't speak. It came from head to head. Have you been aware of this? Have any of you been aware of this? I don't see You have been aware of it. Could you something like as compared to a wound? Well, you see all of these things. Ani is carried away by the conviction, the predator conviction, which was the seductive conviction. He's in a seductive mood and a lot of this type of criminal since the sexual criminals, sometimes there's a combination of different moods. But the main thing is that this, in the logical mind, it comes across the fellas as being his destiny. He says, Hey, I'm supposed to reproduce.

File dm4

dm4-00:01

Words, but you notice that they didn't speak. It came from head to head. Have you been aware of this? Have any of you been aware of this? Let's see. You've been aware of it. Yeah. Something like Kle as compared to a mood. Well, you see all of these things. Kleptomaniac is carried away by the conviction, the predator conviction, which was the seductive conviction. He's in a seductive mood and a lot of this type of criminal since the sexual criminals sometimes, well, there's a combination of different moods, but the main thing is that this in the logical mind comes across to the fellas as being his destiny. He says, Hey, I'm supposed to reproduce, and I'm the hell of playing this game. Can I have a date? I'm going to nail this character and take what I want. Or the world's, the jungle, the Rockefellers are stealing what they want, and if I want to get something out of the five and 10, I'm going down and take it the same as the Rockefellers did. See, so he builds up a logic and he justifies himself. But again, as I said, that mood is subject to the nostalgic mood, and when it hits him, it'll wipe it out. Will wipe out the kleptomania. Right, right.

dm4-01:28

See, I maintain that. You don't have to have any ethical or moral background at all to pick this up. You don't have the Aborigines of Africa, don't have any libraries, but they have an extremely accurate moral code and they have no penitentiaries. I think we confuse ourselves a lot of times with our trying to verbalize, justify, and then give the judge $10,000 for an appeal rather than just to have a true way of living. Yeah. You said the mood was not

dm4-02:00

Totally dependent on

dm4-02:11

That's what I'm getting at is that, for instance, why does a man who lays down asleep dream of something had happened 40 years ago when nothing seems, of course the psychologist will say something, kicked it in the past, in the memory bank. See, I maintain that when the person consciously leans too far, something in the soul brings it back, and the only language you can do it through is through a mood. What is this thing in the soul? Well, yeah, sure. It's bad for me to use something, and I don't define, let's say that if we had all of the computations that went through the computer, I believe that if we had an open computer and took in all of the knowledge that could possibly be, and I'm talking with knowledge about the blueprint for the creation, why the animals are, why the cat eats the mouse, why we're here, and all this sort of thing. This total computation, the rendition of that answer would be the voice of your soul. Now, I'm using the word soul because I'm saying there's something behind only because of my own personal discovery, of course, created something wrong, knowledgeable.

dm4-03:22

Right, right, right. It is a language known to all. I mean, you tap it there. Huh? You got a there. Well, you could see if you want to. If you want to. Yeah. Well, I think that destroyed, yes, of course. If we get into the description of God, I have a different description. I have a different understanding. I believe that the soul of man is God. I don't believe it. I don't believe it. See, that's my experience. Where does this soul of man come from? Does it have to come from something or couldn't it be is? Well, it is, man can be. What could we just be with? What it, the soul of man can just be. Why can't we just be? Well, because we are not the soul of man. We are not the soul of man. We are the shadows in the cave of Plato.

dm4-04:20

Yeah,

dm4-04:21

We section. So because you can't, I didn't quite get you create, you say ad hoc, we proposed. You mean you can suppose a solar man. Well, my perspective is it has a certain simplicity that doesn't care to argue. I know that I haven't argued or played games with myself because I very reluctantly, I do not use the word God because I'm afraid my definition will lead people to believe a certain thing, a traditional concept. Dictionary definition, same way. We're I talking about the soul of man? Now, you can't create anything except temporarily. When you create anything, you can heal. For instance, when a person heals somebody, definitely creation. Yeah. Okay, good, good. Okay, I follow you. Sure, sure. Absolutely. See, that's what I'm saying. I say that through this, through touching these moods. You touch an eternal something. This is the only door. And as I told you, I've met this man from Texas that had this experience.

dm4-05:45

We must have to him in the garage. And the experience he had was altogether different from mine. But yet I knew absolutely beyond the shadow of a doubt. When I heard him talk, our minds were one, I knew his experience and mine was one. See, and you can do this with every human being. You can do this with every human being. I don't believe it should be for stone. But if you want to have the patience, you can come face to face with people. We have low exercise we do in the esoteric group to facilitate this. We call it rapport sessions in which you sit down and read the mind of the other person, or let yourself, let yourself, don't force this, don't strain. Let yourself read the mind of the other person. And the more you do this, the more of a brotherhood you attain because there's no arguments.

dm4-06:37

You understand? See, this is the whole thing. And then when you get on this, see what we're doing? We're filled. We're filled with prejudices, and then we have to be, this is part of the jungle. The cat has to be prejudice to the mouse. We have to be prejudice to the rabbit if we're going to eat him. See, we can't accept him as a brother. Well, the Indian did. He ate his brother, but apologize, but he ate him. See, but that's part of the plan. To me, that's struck me as being very sensible. The Indian's method of saying, Hey, yes, I've got to kill the neighboring tribes, and there isn't enough buffalo for both of us. So one of us has got to go. So let's have a lot of fun while we do it. But I maintain that this is, see, what I'm getting at is maybe I should have said from the beginning, there is no realization of God by verbal logical analysis that the only way that you're going to realize it is through the mind itself, as young said, back through the center. And in the book I've written, I talk of the camera analogy. Don't look at the pictures on the wall, turn around and get back through the projector. There's where the creation came from.

dm4-07:57

What you see on the wall is the shadows on the cave of Plato. See, in other words, that's everything in front of us here. These are shadows on the Cape of Plato. But when you go back through yourself and you find this common language, then you also find that you're all the, there's nobody out there but you. Yes, but don't ask me that. The man referred to as being. Yeah, he made a mistake. He made a mistake. I mean, he didn't lie. He didn't lie, but he made a mistake. And using a word that can't be defined, it's different for everyone. No, it's the same for everyone. But you can't talk about absolute things. It's like mathematics. I could give you a mathematical symbol for it. It would be an absolute factor, but you can't describe absolute factors. That's the reason I had trouble writing. Because you're talking about the totality of things, which in other words, I've said that it is the knowledge or the experience of nothingness and everything simultaneously.

dm4-09:07

That doesn't tell you too much. No. I could go on and say something else, maybe bring you in a little closer. But these things were written, I wrote these in the book, in this fashion, that basically you realize one of the first things you realize is that you don't exist, especially as you think you are. Go take a look in the mirror and you're very happy with what you see there. Oh, look, what God or something caught on this earth to grace and make other people jealous. See? But after a while you realize that you're a blob waiting for them to put up and dig a hole and put it in to get it won't smell of a place up. And that's you as far as your logical proof is concerned. That's you. That's all there is to you logically just what you see now. So if there is something else, how do you find it? See, and if you find it, how do you define it in terms of the body that doesn't exist. What is a temporary condition or No, no, no. It's permanent. It's permanent. It's absolutely permanent. But you don't, let's put it this way, you're not living it. You have to eat you. So I'm drinking acha of Coke here. Their fault.

dm4-10:29

That's relative. And the relative world is necessary, or else you got to abandon it. Totally. So you come back on the stage. It's like going back on the stage

dm4-10:45

In the first part of your talk, you were talking about the brightness of green and the percentage of the brightness of green. You didn't expand on that. If a person had colored dreams and light and bright all the time,

dm4-11:02

Oh, I would just say, then you'd have to set a whole new scale for judging the nostalgic element, which ones had it. But see, what I was trying to determine was I am quite sure everybody was sitting here has had dreams. I've heard some people say they don't dream, but they claim everybody dreams, but forgets it rapidly. But I maintain that the majority of people have great dreams. I mean that their majority of their dreams are somber doll, no voice, no music, no perfume. So what is it has this tremendous impact upon the emotion of the person. As I said in the movies, they got the violins and colors, smells, touches and all this sort of thing. They're not there, but yet this mood is impelled. But the only way it can be impelled is through memories that were nostalgic. And with it comes this feeling then that this is it. This is the mankind's voice of rectitude. See, this is the evenness. This is the even voice of man. And I don't mean conscience either. Some people confuse it with conscience. Conscience is sometimes is a disease or a sickness. See, it's not always accurate.

dm4-12:31

Well, you're saying then that the nostalgia that a person dreams is dependent on his personality.

dm4-12:39

No certain. No, no, no. I would say that if a person didn't have it, that very possibly they minus a faculty of communication, that's all. Maybe everyone doesn't have it. The only way we can tell me to go through and ask, let's do it. For how many here have never had any nostalgia? Nobody. How many here have had gray dreams? What I call somber doll dreams in which were very moving. There are very few hands that aren't up, you see? So now I'm just opposing that very possibly. We have some people that may be the nostalgia doesn't come with a great dream, or it doesn't come in a horizontal, but maybe it's a purple dream or maybe it's a green, or maybe it's when the sun's shining. But nevertheless, I maintain the spirit of nostalgia is the language, and I maintain. It's what the psychologists are missing if they're wanting to talk to people, talking about possibly a direction, maybe it's homicidal or something. As you get into that person's mood, and I think they can be classified. I think they're classified moods. And as I said, we're programmed by nature to have short seduction moods like the hunter kills his prey and eats it, and he forgets about killing. He's sad, satisfied the person has sex and he dreams of a seduction mood of sex. And the thing is culminated and he forgets it. See?

dm4-14:10

And even the sex moods, the result of sex moods somehow will be negated by this nostalgic mood in the nostalgic moods you may regret. For instance, the little cabin back in the rose bushes was destroyed by a seduction, the lady next door. So everybody had to leave the flower covered cottage. See? So then in that nostalgic picture, the person saying, oh boy, if I had a do over again, I'd have my children, my wife with me, and et cetera. And things would be eternally. Because how many people have not felt that actions are eternal? In other words, what happens? We go through school, and when we graduate from high school, a nostalgia settles on us because we are no longer, we can no longer go through this competitive achievement fraternity thing. By fraternity, I don't mean fraternities. I mean fraternization, this comradery, the spirit, the pervades.

dm4-15:23

We would like to sea go on forever. No, no, we got to leave it. We're going out. Boom. The same thing occurs when a kid drops out of class, a tremendous nostalgia that there's something, the ship's going off without him and he'll never catch it again. And then we go on into marriage. We grew up and get a job, and we get married, and we are very much in love, and we, it's like a drink of wine. You get a unique taste of wine and you spend the rest of your life trying to get that same damn taste back. And that's what marriage is. See the nostalgia of once more, getting that rare nectar. See? And yet there's a beauty there. There's an internality to that beauty. You've got it. That's what I say. You don't go back and try to recapture for all eternity. The beauty that existed between any two people is there. Sure. You can't have it 24 hours a day because when it happens, it's there forever. But you can follow it up by bad memories, destruction of the relationship. Of course, it'd be nice, it'd be wonderful if you could have beautiful memories with 10 women, but they won't put up with it.

dm4-16:44

You're right.

dm4-16:47

Do you agree with Paul Brunton when he talks about the state of dreamless sleep, when there are no dreams, it's a deeper state in which we're actually in contact with what he calls the older self?

dm4-17:05

No, I don't know. I think Paul Brunton wrote a tremendous lot from talking with Hindu gurus. And I think that you possibly go through, there's a mood that you go through that occurs shortly before you reach your realization. And that mood, of course is, and I think this is the imposed upon you by a combination of something deep in your nature with possibly some outside help by outside help, take a guess. See, I mean, some people call it spiritual help people from the other side, God meaning the universal spirit of man trying to come through the mud and the clay. But there's an internal urge. And then this outside help brings about this realization and it occurs through a mood. The mood is one of hopelessness and death despair. This is logic. Logic says you're nothing but mud. And you face that. You face that and you face it with your whole being. You know that this is it that you're, and then you go through the death experience, you die.

dm4-18:20

And so consequently, I don't know that there's that, there's this is almost, what do you call ambiguous, that there would be a dreamless sleep. How could there be a dreamless sleep? How could there be any value of any realization? As soon as there's a realization, there's a dream or a consciousness? See now, if you're talking about a person getting into a place where there are no thoughts, no dreams, but intense awareness, oh, this only occurs after the death experience. So that could happen if that's what he means. I have to refer to maybe what guru he talked to at the time and what level they were talking about.

dm4-19:12

Just back toal again, since it occupies a large part of our life, it seems like they're almost saying s, in other words, stay away from the mass media, television, movies, et cetera, because they keep trying to drag you into it.

dm4-19:33

Is that the implication you're trying to Well, the thing that irritates me about the media is, of course, I don't mind the nostalgia, but I don't like him to use it for selling cigarettes or some item or everything. What is it? Lemonade has to be grandpa and a rock and share selling it. And this I resist because it's not the universal language. It's an imitation of the universal language. It appeals. It hits you there and you think, oh, this is what happens. I think like a child, I talk about the seduction of the child at Christmas time, a child becomes seduced and they get the feeling that after a while, as I said, they revolt against the Santa Claus idea when they find out you don't exist, but then they pick up the spirit of Christmas by that is this mood, and they want to perpetrate this forever. And they want go about guessing. Most young people, until they're clear out of college, spend the biggest part of their time guessing what they should do to be in conformity with the rest of society because the moods of society changed so rapidly. So if you watch people's actions, you'll see 'em going through this, especially young people pretending. I've watched girls practice gossiping.

dm4-20:57

If you get in the neighborhood and start, try to clock like the old grandmother and think that's what she should do, the boy pretending he's a rooster or he's supposed to be the protector of the week or something. So he takes karate lessons and goes strutting around and try to impress everybody with his double standards or something. But everybody's trying to, in their earlier days, until he gets tired of playing the game, you don't give a damn and then you can relax. See, but most young people, I find are trying to guess the language, and they're always guessing the Pollyanna thing that's imposed upon them by the people who don't want any, they don't want their stores crashed into, so they helped build up Christmas spirit and all these utility companies are saying, work together. All these songs are singing. We're never going to get anywhere else who work together. See why work together? Why work with somebody who's stealing you blind? But it's so sweet to think that everybody's working together because see, this goes back and comes from that nostalgic sense that maybe these thieves will get harmonious if everybody's kind. I always think of the flower children it used to bring. They had their heads all bandaged up in New York, and they'd be bringing flowers to the police department. It just doesn't work.

dm4-22:31

Yeah.

dm4-22:32

You mentioned that we have during our dreams, influence we have during the day. Do you think also that the events that happen during the day influence their dreams? Yes. I think this accounts for a percentage. Remember I said that we took one form of dream only because a lot of dreams are prophetic dreams or reactionary dreams by prophetic. Prophetic dreams are neither fearful nor seductive. They just seem to be, maybe an intelligence is trying to communicate with us or something, I don't know. Or for some reason, we can see into the future even occasionally. But I think there's quite a few. But I don't think the daytime, I don't think the daytime influences the except, unless it becomes a, what do you call it, a custom, a culture, an embedded cultural thing. And I don't think it becomes an embedded cultural thing unless it conforms. The nostalgia shut

dm4-23:43

Off, the sun comes out, there's still air, you're stilling awake.

dm4-23:53

Well, maybe a lot of things going on inside your head. But what we gauge by is what I call the shutter of consciousness. There's only one eye. There's only one. We basically can only have one thought at a time. It's like a camera shutter. We only open and close upon on one thought. And now you might have some in rapid succession of different look. So it looks like it's flipping back and forth rapidly to where you might think you're doing two things or having two things going, but you only think one thing at a time. So if you're watching a dream, if you're watching that type of experience, you'll continue to watch it until maybe after you wake up. Or if you do, you're going to see the thing in the room, the actual

dm4-24:41

Under. I feel like something, I wake up, I haven't take the pictures of whatever I'm doing

dm4-24:49

Or something. There's underline. Oh, that's what I'm talking about. See, that's what I maintain. If you have a strong, strong nostalgic dream or even a fearful dream, a nightmare, you'll lay there in bed and puzzle. I've had just been kind of frozen, say like I say, why get up? Let's see what, let's analyze this. What's fresh in my mind? Where's this coming from? This is a real world like entering a dimension with LSD or something. This is as real as the daytime. And then when you realize after a bit of introspection, the biggest part of the stuff that happens to you during the day is unreal. It's created, it's colored. See, to a point where this stuff isn't a limited number of, as I said, there's a limited number of factors can be used on a dream to make it impressive. There's a tremendous lot more factors can impress us in our daytime experience.

dm4-25:49

I'm inclined to believe when you meet a person in a dream, the thing that attracts you about that person is that person's self. That's their real self. Despite their external personality. You go right to the heart of that person. Whereas the person you meet in daytime, you have perfume, you have music, the words or musical or the putty and lacquer and all this other thing and the dresses, and so they add to it. But in the dream, you're going directly to a person and there has to be an intense thing there. And as I said, that carries over. And this is what we long for. We invariably, this is what nostalgia is. It's a longing for the permanence of that experience. And it has to be a profound experience because limited to the senses, to the number of sensory registers that hit our mind, things have registered

dm4-26:51

Between major emotion

dm4-27:05

Slide. Well, I think you have 'em during the day. I think there's certain things will cause 'em. Traumas. Traumas may cause them. I think it depends, again, of course, on the way your head works. I think that there's certain things that, as I said, I named different things that are conducive to nostalgia. Certain colors, certain musical instruments, words, certain pictures possible. Even young talks about the giant trees and boulders in his dream. I think that's the archetypal memory coming out that may even be nostalgic. It seems to have been nostalgic with him in fact. And the mind goes on in a kind of a scramble to try to piece this together when it wakes up. Why the trees and the thought will come to the waking person. Is this what I was 2000 years ago? Did I live them in the jungles? Was that my home?

dm4-28:11

Or why did I dream of it? So I think that nostalgia is provoked, but it's more or less done with people that have a poetic sense in movies, these theaters, some of the old plays, you don't get them anymore. There's a new theme out. See, it's seduction. And this isn't a good sign for civilization. Maybe it'll pass. But the old theme was nostalgia, and now it's seduction acquisition played up. And you can't go to one of these porno movies and be carried back in time. See, unless there's been some period, it's a sickness. Nobody gets nostalgic over sickness.

dm4-28:59

Would you say that someone who has experienced a realization or enlightenment would be been an enlightened man? Isn't there an element of relativity in some, or one person might remember more of this total knowledge than another? Isn't there a way for that person to expand consciousness?

dm4-29:28

No. There, there's no, first of all, there's no knowledge. There is no knowledge. The second thing is that when you are everything, there is nowhere to go. There's no expansion. See, this is one of the misnomers of course, that maybe is valid up until this point. For instance, if you've done any reading on this, you've maybe have read Roman Maharshi, Roman Maharshi talks of Kila ne and saji. To cut it short has caused me consciousness. And he describes it. The well hanging in the bucket, hanging in the well, the experience, the bucket going down in the well. And at any time when it gets tired of being in the well, it can be drawn back up into the world of pseudo reality. And this is what we live in now. But it can experience this tremendous vision of the eternality of all things and the order and harmony of all things now. But in the Saji Sam experiences the drop of water that flows into the ocean, and as it flows, it's indistinguishable from the river. And when it reaches the ocean, how are you going to sort it out and bring it back? It comes back by way of vapor perhaps, but the drop is forever eternally a part of that ocean. The drop is the ocean indistinguishable from the ocean.

Footnotes

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